Lili chats with Super Smack, a multi-hyphenate artist and product manager, about the twists and turns of his artistic journey, and about balancing his work life with his art.
Episode Transcript
Super Smack's website
"Screens" by Super Smack
Super Smack's instagram: @supersmackraps
Simon Sinek's Golden Circle TEDtalk
Find Your Why
Start with Why
Vanguard Theatre Company (VTC)
TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre
Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ Super Smack
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello listeners and happy holidays! Welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre, and today I'm excited to share today's episode with JD Ricafort, A.K.A. Super Smack. Smack is the brother of last season's guest, Catherine McCreary. Catherine recommended that Smack would make a great guest for TDQ, and he definitely did not disappoint.
He's had a fascinating journey in different career paths, all of which have culminated into him creating his own music under the name, Super Smack. I spoke to him over the summer, so while many things have changed since then, his story remains fascinating and inspiring. So without further ado, let's find out what Super Smack is up to.
So Smack, what are you up to?
Smack: What I am up to at the moment is I'm getting ready to go on vacation.
Lili Torre: The best thing to be up to! Where are you going?
Smack: I'm going to Sedona, Arizona, and then I'm also going [00:01:00] to Tuscon.
Lili Torre: Nice. A nice Arizona trip. What's in Arizona?
Smack: So right now I'm in Arizona. So I used to live in New York City earlier this year, and then moved out to the West Coast to kind of ride out the initial phases of quarantine with COVID and everything. And then, was there for three months, and then traveled up the coast to California for a little bit, saw some friends.
And then decided to kind of park out here in Phoenix, after visiting some family out here and realizing that, it was kind of all right. And I actually liked it for what I needed right now. So backstory is I'm. I was born in Arizona, so I was born in Phoenix. Lived here until I was 10 and then grew up in LA and then went to New York.
So I'm kind of like backtracking and retracing my steps
Lili Torre: Yeah, that's cool!
Smack: It's like actually not a bad city, especially like with everything else closed right now. I'm like, well, I really value it. What do I value right now? I value space. I value like peace of mind. I value like [00:02:00] nature so I can like get out and get fresh air, even though everything's closed down and like living a somewhat healthy lifestyle and then maintaining like my creative pursuits.
And so far I've been able to do all that pretty well in Arizona. So I'll be here for the next, like, five, six months, until, at least until the end of the year. And when 2021 comes I'll kind of reevaluate.
Lili Torre: That's great. And are you just, taking your vacation just to see some different sites in Arizona?
Smack: Yeah, so I'm meeting up with a couple of friends, actually from New York and from some of my other artistic projects in the past, they'll be visiting and we're going to meet up in Sedona, and then I'm going to meet up with some other friends in Tucson and yeah. Sedona is just supposed to be, I don't know...have you ever been?
Lili Torre: I haven't.
Smack: It's just supposed to be this like beautiful nature, like hiking rock formations, like kind of like sort of spiritual, like kind of getaway and, yeah, I'm really excited for that.
Lili Torre: I think that sounds awesome. That's so exciting. I definitely support anyone's ability to [00:03:00] take a vacation right now, especially if it's drivable and convenient and, socially distanced. So that's amazing.
Smack: Yeah. Yeah. All of those things were like definitely major requirements for me as well. So I was just glad I was able to make it happen. And I think, dare I say a well-deserved vacation. Cause I've been hustling.
Lili Torre: Yes. I will definitely agree with that. That it is most definitely well-deserved. And you know, I think some of that hustle is what we're here to talk about today, especially if you've been, hustling in the more recent past, because I think the quarantine hustle is a very unique hustle and I would love to hear about yours.
Smack: Yeah, totally. So I am a musician. I make hip hop and pop music to perform both live and as a recording artist. So before everything shut down, I was performing pretty regularly. I did my [00:04:00] first regional and national tour last year, where I visited like 16 cities in the Midwest and the East coast and the South.
And got to perform like my original music in front of people who, a lot of people who hadn't seen me before. And then a lot of people who had heard my music before and were just excited to see me live for the first time. And that was just such a rush. I've been making original music now for the last couple of years. So that was definitely like a major achievement. So that's kind of my main creative pursuit right now is writing and recording as my artist persona, which is Super Smack.
Yeah, that's like the main thing that I do. Before that I also did theater for a while. And then, on the side, my like quote unquote day job is I work as a product manager for a public health technology company that works with Medicare and Medicaid.
Lili Torre: Wow. That is such an amazing spectrum of things to do. I mean, even within just your artistic work, the fact that you are a creative artist and you [00:05:00] write your own music and perform your own music, but that you also have a background in theater as an interpretive artist, you know, interpreting other people's work.
But then on top of that, you have this whole other career as a product manager. And you know, it must run in the family because as you know, we had your amazing sister Catherine on here talking about her work in coding, which also to so many people seems completely different from artistry, but I'm curious, how you feel like those seemingly disparate things of being an artist and being a product manager, how they align for you and how they sort of find their center of the Venn diagram within you.
Smack: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question. So as you mentioned, my sister is also kind of like has these dual careers as now a software engineer and then also formerly on Broadway and doing music and performance on her own [00:06:00] projects.
And I have sort of a similar but different path. In a way, my sister and I kind of came from opposite ends and kind of ended up in a similar space. Whereas like she built up her arts career first and then decided that she wanted to branch out... after graduating school.... so I actually never formally studied any form of music or dance. I did it as, as a hobby and as like my social scene, it was like, these were like the people who I really jived with. These are the activities that I just love doing.
But my major in college was like International Relations and a little bit of Computer Science. And so that's like what I went into after college. I worked in a variety of like positions working on technology problems with the federal government. This was in another era in another administration. So we'll talk about that later
Lili Torre: Sure.
Smack: if we need to. Um, but it was really fun at the time. Cause I, it was... It was [00:07:00] very fulfilling because I really like working on projects that I feel like make a difference in the world and that help people. And so getting to work on, like... with the department of justice and the department of energy and like solving, like these hard problems was just, it was just really fun. And it was like exactly what I wanted to do.
And then like fast forward four or five years after that. And I was still like, overall, like happy with my job. Like on paper, I wasn't dissatisfied with anything, except for all of a sudden I had this itch, that kind of came out of nowhere, because I had been doing, I had still been doing dance and some music on the side, just as maintaining that as a hobby.
And I don't know what happened. Just like kinda one morning I woke up and I just had this itch in my brain to like, I want to actually like try this and I mean, like try it for real. Like, I want to see how good I am in terms of like, kind of competing in this space and like, can I actually book work?
And once I got that bug in my head, it was probably like also being [00:08:00] exposed to the theater as an industry through my sister, I'm sure I was exposed to it in there. but yeah, it just became more and more curious about it. So actually went the other way where, one thing led to another led to another led to another and actually ended up full on quitting my job kind of at a point in my career where I was progressing at a pretty good pace. And I just was like, "Nope, I'm going to put this aside. And, let me audition for musical theater gigs." And I did that for two years.
Lili Torre: Wow. That's amazing. I mean, It's fascinating for me to hear kind of the similarities between your story and your sister's story, because I know that she also didn't major in theater in college and, you know, she had every intention of becoming a software engineer, like right out of school. And then, you know, I was having trouble finding a job doing that, so she decided to go- it made me laugh at the time, and it's still making me laugh now- that she was struggling to get a job as a software engineer, so she was like, "I [00:09:00] guess I'll try theater!" And had an easier time getting a job doing that, which is, will always be funny to me.
But it's so interesting to hear how sort of parallel and sort of opposite your stories are. And you know, it's interesting to me that her journey in the arts inspired you to really reignite that part of yourself and make that more of a priority for yourself and, you know, a career because Catherine said to me, when she reached out to me about suggesting that I have you on The Dreaded Question... I'm going to read to you exactly what she said about you.
Oh yeah. I know like putting you on the spot here, but hopefully she doesn't mind, mostly nice things. She said, "He is the person who really inspired me to believe that I can have a happier artistic life by pursuing my potential in the tech world simultaneously."
So it kind of sounds like you inspired each other in sort [00:10:00] of opposing ways that ended up with the same result, which is that you both have fulfilling thriving, artistic work and fulfilling, thriving parallel work as well.
Smack: Aw, yeah, that's really nice. I don't know if I knew that she said that, but that's very nice of her. I'll have to pay her later. Um, but yeah, that is true. That is true. I do really, I think that it's not necessarily for everybody, but at least for me. And I think for other people who I've met along the way, it is very possible to have more than one career or more than one field define you.
And even to do those things simultaneously and to have this kind of like, non-linear... like live this kind of branching path. It's hard to do, and there's definitely like some sacrifices you have to make along the way, but I think it's a lot more possible than people realize, and that it's kind of it's...
It's a, it's like a wrinkle in the traditional kind of like [00:11:00] dream story that you hear growing up where like, Oh, you find the thing that you're passionate about and you like go and you just like dedicate your whole self to that thing. And I think that that's a, that's a great narrative and it can work for a lot of people, but I think it's really limiting in some cases.
And I think, in, in my case I found, like I love, the music projects that I do, and I love getting to write and record music and have kind of my original message in there. But then also just having a life outside of that and being able to kind of maintain myself in other ways that are still like intellectually stimulating, just makes me feel a little bit more complete and, yeah, I'm grateful for that.
Lili Torre: Yeah. so once you quit your job and decided to jump in, you know, with both feet into your artistic work, what was that process like for you?
Smack: Yeah. So I knew right off the bat that I had this like skill deficit. Where [00:12:00] like, if I was going to audition, I knew that everyone, almost everyone else in the room would have like majored in musical theater, had taken like continuing training, like in New York City. And I just knew that I had a lot of like skills to cover.
So I, I kind of came at it from a point of like, and I never had a, a particular like outcome focus goal. Like "I must make it on Broadway," for example.
I had, I had some of those goals, like I just wanted to see like, can I book professional work? And that was like one layer of it, but my other layer was just like, I want to see how good I can possibly get. Like, I want to understand something about myself by like testing myself in this way and like measuring myself against other people.
And so I kind of just like took stock of like what are the different skills that I have? How good is my singing? How good is my acting, how good is my dancing and these different areas? What do I need to do to level up in these things? What kind of auditions are out there? So like what, what skills do I need to improve to excel at these other auditions?
And one of the things I ended up targeting was... so like [00:13:00] my, when it comes to dance, I had training in a lot of different forms growing up, but like, what I really specialized in as I got older and older was hip hop and house and street forms of dance. And so I was like, okay, well, this is something that actually have a relative strength in, let me go target these productions of like In the Heights, for example, or these like other indie shows that are like looking for people who can rap and looking for people who can dance hip hop.
And I was like, I can do these things. So I targeted more of those auditions at the start and that actually let me get like more earlier success. I got, I got booked in a production of In the Heights and then later got booked on another production of In the Heights. As it turns out, like break dancing is not a very common skill when it comes to like the musical theater crop. So I was able to like differentiate myself early there.
And yeah. Yeah. So doing that actually got me into this, like... introduced me into this kind of sub genre of hip hop theater, and that intersection and like at the time the Hamilton had, I think just made its move to Broadway. So there [00:14:00] was a lot of like buzz and excitement on this like new, like artistic frontier.
And there was a program that the, that The Public Theater was running called the BARS workshop. And it was run by Daveed Diggs, who is, Thomas Jefferson and Lafayette in Hamilton and his longtime collaborator, Rafael Casal.
And they're both like these like amazing writer/director/artist like hybrids from Oakland. And I applied to this workshop and I actually got in. And I had not really had any formal creative writing either. The last song that I had written was, a love song to my then high school girlfriend asking her to prom. I was like, I wrote a song once. Let me try writing. Let me try, like writing a rap and like, you know, submitting it to this workshop. And I got accepted with like me and like 15 other people.
And that workshop ended up [00:15:00] becoming like if you talk to my sister and her husband, you know, that they went to like coding bootcamp to like jump start their careers. Like this BARS workshop, like ended up kind of becoming like my creative writing boot camp. And just getting to hang out at The Public, you know, on the regular for like an entire summer and like making this work with all these other amazing, like kind of up and coming artists, really that then gave me the taste for writing, which ultimately led me out... by the time where I was like, "okay, I'm satisfied with what I've achieved in musical theater. What do I want to do next? If I'm asking myself honestly," and it was like, I want to make my own stuff now. So that's where I transitioned into. Being a songwriter and recording artist .
Lili Torre: Wow. Okay. There's so much that I want to unpack about what you just said, because it's so cool how much of your journey has come from really owning and understanding what makes you unique? Because when you [00:16:00] first started talking about, you know, this pivot into the theater world, and, you know, you didn't have a degree in musical theater and you felt like your, your skills weren't necessarily on par with everyone else.
You know, I was thinking about. One of my favorite quotes is "Comparison is the thief of joy" and that it can be so tempting to compare ourselves to other people. And, you know, I was starting to think to myself, like, "Gosh, what is the difference between comparing yourself to other people and letting that, you know, kind of hold you back, and then comparing yourself to other people and utilizing that as motivation.
And I definitely want to hear your thoughts on that. But what I took from the rest of the story that you told is that you didn't obsess about being as good as everyone else in what they do well, you focused on, "Okay I'm noticing that people are better than me at some of these things, but [00:17:00] I'm better at these things that no one else seems to be doing. And I wonder if there's a way for me to lean into that and make that a unique part of my artistic expression."
And it sounds like that's what you did and it turned out incredibly well. But I'm curious what that mindset was like for you that could keep you from going to, you know, the dark place of comparison.
Smack: Yeah. That's a really, that's like, I like that observation and I think that's true. Something that I think about a lot is, in my old career, when, like, before I transitioned into the arts, and I was working at this like federal tech company, I started like doing job interviews, like being someone who would like interview other candidates. And one of the questions that like we had to ask the candidates that was like a standard question, or like, what are like your strengths and what are your weaknesses?
I always hated that question cause you got the most like dry, boring answers. Like everyone [00:18:00] answers the same exact way. There's no real good way to answer like a weaknesses question. And, I was talking with a colleague at the time and who was like having kind of a similar observation. And what we talked about is like, actually I think a lot of the time, people who are able to really recognize and leverage their strengths. like are often, like their strengths are often something that was previously considered a weakness.
And I think like, usually if it's like a weakness, it's something that makes you different, right? Like that's the kind of, part of the definition of being a weakness. And that means that like, if it's something that makes you different, there might be a way to actually, like, if you just take it from a different perspective or like kind of nurture it in a different way to like, turn that into a strength actually.
And so that's something that I think about a lot, and I think it's kind of similar to the, the observation that you had for sure.
Lili Torre: Yeah, I love that. That's so true. That's such a like stereotype of a, of a interview question is like strengths and [00:19:00] weaknesses and trying to come up with weaknesses that are like secretly strengths, you know, all of that, but, but it is true. You know, what you said is like, so often, especially in the corporate world, like your perceived weaknesses are things that are actually strengths.
And, you know, I even think about like when I was a kid, I was told frequently that I was too sensitive or that I was, you know, overly emotional as a kid. And I felt like those were such weaknesses and things I was kind of ashamed of.
And then of course it makes sense that I started doing theater and was like, wait, people don't think that's a weakness here. Like, that's actually something that I'm being praised for now. And like that is part of what made me feel like I really belonged in theater. And so I think that's kind of an interesting thought that like the place that you belong will be the place that your perceived [00:20:00] weaknesses are actually valued. That's so cool.
Smack: Yeah, I agree with that for sure.
Lili Torre: I also want to ask you about something that you said before when you were working at the, at the federal tech company, you said something about that it felt so great to be helping people and to be making a difference and to really feel like you were having that impact. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. And then how that's also played into your artistic work.
Because I think that sometimes as artists it can kind of go either way, right? Like sometimes we're like, Oh, you know, we're just singing and dancing. Like we're not really like changing the world. But then on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes it can feel like that work, the artistic work is so much more important than any quote unquote, regular job we've ever had. And so I think on both sides of the coin, it can feel like there's a lack of impact or a lack of making a difference in either of these jobs. And I'm curious [00:21:00] how you've found that in both worlds.
Smack: Yeah. So this is something that I've been thinking about a lot, especially this year, and especially recently. So I started, yeah, I started out my career with like, largely at this like, very like kind of altruistic drive was like, I want to help other people let me, like, where's like the place where I can make like the biggest impact?
And then, when I first transitioned to the arts, it was because I was like, very curious about kind of like testing myself in this area. And it was actually like a pretty, that's like actually like a pretty selfish motivation, and not in necessarily a negative way. I think it was like useful at the time. I think that's like, very, I don't mean to like, put that in a negative light or anyone who has those motivations also.
But it was like very, it was very focused on, on me and, that kind of like desire to like, you know, be altruistic kind of like, just like melted into like the background of like my priorities.
And then as I discovered writing as a skill, and as I discovered song [00:22:00] writing as something that like I really liked doing, it started to come kind of full circle, and I realized that I actually had these, I had these thoughts and these feelings and these stories and experiences that I had actually never shared with anybody in any forum. And I realized that like, music was such a cool opportunity to like, get to do this.
So at the time I was listening to a lot of hip hop, a lot of rap and just like hearing the, the, the power and the messages that these artists and these songwriters are able to achieve through their lyrics was like so inspiring.
And it kind of triggered this thing, like kind of like reawoke this thing back in my brain, that was like, "Oh, remember that time in your life when you really wanted to help other people, like, what if you took all of these like artistic and creative skills that you've been cultivating and you like then merged it with that, like kind of altruistic, like part of your DNA and like, what would [00:23:00] happen if you did that?
And that's where that's where Super Smack was, was born. And that's where, I decided I was like, Oh, I need to, like, I need to at least try this. cause I think, I think it can help. And, it's something that I, I just am really curious about.
So that was kind of the origin for Super Smack. Fast forward now a couple of years, and like the thing that keeps me going with super snack is like, being able to express these ideas. So I just, I just dropped a song last week, actually. And this is part of, this is part of why I'm like, Oh, well vacation well-deserved because it's not like timed it was like right after I'd made this major release.
And it's, it's called "Screens" and it's about screen addiction and it's like the first track. Yeah, I know. It was like, I was like, well, if there's ever a time to come out with this song, it's probably right now. Yeah. And it's like the first song where I really tried to be more vulnerable on the track.
I think a lot of, especially in hip hop, it's like [00:24:00] a lot of like flexing and posturing. Right. And I think there's there's power in that. But it's also, I also really admire artists, hip hop and otherwise who are able to show kind of vulnerability and kind of confess things that they're, not really proud of in an effort to kind of grow through it and at least share it with other people.
And that was the first time I, I really tried to. Kind of imbue this into a song and, the response has been amazing. so far it's actually like blown up, like, like low key for me on Spotify. It's performed like, being in my former job. I'm like, I'm a data guy. So I'm like, always looking at the numbers and like it's performed like 10 times better than any of my other releases.
Yeah, thanks. So I'm like really excited about that. And I'm also like, and I, I'm also careful not to get too sucked up in the numbers because, it's all, it's all a game at the end of the day, but at least in one measure that is like it's 10 times the people I'm reaching with this message. And that is very, that's like very fulfilling and that's, that's what keeps me going. And I'm really glad that I was able to kind of come full circle to that, [00:25:00] cause whatever you're doing, you know, you could be in tech or you could be in the arts or you can be in business or you could be in any other form of work.
I think it really helps if you just have belief in what you're doing, like an undercurrent of something that's driving you, whether it's like helping other people or whatever. It just makes everything so much more possible.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. That is so true. You know, we talk a lot on this show about purpose and, finding your Why and the like Simon Sinek find your why, start with why verbiage, and I think part of the reason it's so important for artists, is it does serve as that sort of unifier between all of the things that we do.
And I think it's, you know, really the main reason that. We are able to have something like an artistic career and a parallel career. And you know, all the many pursuits that we have as artists, even within our artistry with someone like you, who both works as, an actor and an [00:26:00] interpretive artist. And then also as a creative artist, writing your own music and songs.
And it's interesting to kind of hear that part of your journey was sort of weaving together the different things that you do and figuring out how to achieve the purpose that you want in the mediums that you want to express yourself in. And you started to touch on this, but I'm curious where in the journey, where in the process was Super Smack born, and tell me more about the name Super Smack.
Smack: Yeah. Yeah. Super Smack was born in the, like towards the end of 2018. But I hadn't like kind of created this particular like artistic project until, until then. And, like rewinding, like 2017 was a year where I really felt like I achieved a lot of those like musical theater goals, that I had set out on.
So I booked, like a regional production of In the Heights, with Robin de Jesus. And, got to like [00:27:00] play alongside him. And then later that year I actually booked a production of The Music Man. And got cast as Harold Hill. Yeah. Well, it was like, I was like, so this was like kind of one of those dream roles that like, I never actually thought I would get to play, cause I'm like a 5'6" like Asian dude, but so I get cast in, it was like the leading man in this like iconic like piece of like Americana of a musical.
I was like, yeah, I know like props to that amazing theater. A non-equity theater in New Jersey called Vanguard, VTC. So like props to them their, their whole, casting kind of philosophy and directing philosophy is like very progressive, which was rad
Lili Torre: Yeah. And your rap skills definitely came in handy, I'm sure.
Smack: Yeah. Yeah. It was like, kind of like proto rap, like patter. I was like, Oh, this is like, this is right up my alley.
Lili Torre: Yeah "Trouble" was like no problem, I got this.
Smack: Yeah. So, once I like able to. Kind of like achieve certain [00:28:00] things, certain goals, like, like I try and like, appreciate it, and then also simultaneously like alright, what do I want to do next? Where's like my next target. In a way that is like, not ungrateful to like what I've achieved in the past.
So yeah. That's where I was. I was like, okay, I want to start like writing and, and producing my own stuff. And, at the time I was also... so growing up, I was like really into video games and like anime and cartoons and have this like really nerdy side that I kind of like lost touch with over the years.
And then at the time I was kind of getting back in touch with it. I was like, kind of rediscovering all this as a way to like re trigger, like my imagination. I was like, okay, if I'm going to write and record these songs, like I need to get like my imagination going. And so I like trying to bring myself almost to this, like, kind of like earlier childhood state like, all I did was like play with Legos and like make up like stories.
And, also I was like, it also [00:29:00] came from a lot of the artists, especially hip hop artists that I really admired. Their earlier work in particular was very much influenced. I noticed it was very much influenced by the context in which they grew up.
So it was like, know, Jay Z and Brooklyn, NAS and Queens, like Kanye and Chicago, like all these artists, right? And I was like, okay, well, my physical location of where I grew up, isn't really interesting. I don't really know that much where I can draw from that, but like the kind of imagination, like headspace that I was in as a kid, like maybe I can draw from that. So I actually started, like, that was like, all these things kind of were ingredients into like me kind of getting back into, video games and, and like kind of other parts of like nerdy geek culture, which ironically have become like mainstream.
It's like now, cool to be a nerd. I'm like, Whoa, wait, like, it's cool to be a nerd now. Like I just stopped being a nerd, like what, what happened?
[00:30:00] So, yeah, that's, I was playing a lot of. Super Smash Brothers and my nickname in that game, like my alias was Smack. And I always liked that alias cause I, I just like, especially as a rapper, like sometimes words just like sound good and I liked the sound of it. And I also liked the idea of like having, I always wanted to be like a superhero and I think a lot of, there's this... one way of looking at like, rap artists is I think like rap artists tend to be, they're always like personas in some form.
And, they tend to be either superheroes or super villains. So like Beyonce that not like, well, she does rap, but like just as a music artist, Beyonce very much a superhero. Right.
Lili Torre: Oh, for sure.
Smack: Bruno Mars, very much like a superhero. Billie Eilish, like super-villain for sure. Right. so like, I think I was like, okay, well, like which one am I? I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm probably, I like, I, I gravitate more towards the [00:31:00] superhero thing. So let me just lean into this and just like have this like superhero kind of persona. And I, liked Super Smack as a thing.
I think I, I made a folder on my computer where I like started putting some song files on it, just called Super Smack. And I just like typed it in. And I, I, I hit enter to like, save that folder or whatever, and I just remember staring at it and I was like, this feels good. And sometimes things just feel good.
Lili Torre: Yeah. Especially with names. I know it can be so easy to get caught up in the name for something, whether it be, you know, an artistic endeavor like that, or a small business or a podcast even, whatever you're creating, but like, it's so true when it's right. Then you just like, feel good. You just know.
Smack: Yeah. So it was just like one of those things that clicked and it's been a ride and a lot of my, some of my earlier stuff was like very much influenced by, kind of those like childhood interests, like video games, tech, nerdy culture. But then like, obviously now just dropping [00:32:00] a song about like screen addiction and like, Uh, I dropped the song that was like, kind of like a like a sexy, like R&B song earlier this year. So obviously I have like branched out beyond that, but then being able to have that as a other route and as like, kind of like, this is where I came from, was really, was really helpful.
Lili Torre: That's such a smart, creative place to start is like those creative roots or those deeply rooted inspirations, I guess. It's interesting what you were saying about so many artists in general, but yes, like rappers identify so strongly with where they're from and where they grew up.
And I was just talking to someone about how I've never felt that way about a place that I've lived in. You know, I've lived in New York for eight years now. And I would laugh out loud if I tried to call myself a New Yorker like that just doesn't resonate. And I grew up in the South and I don't identify at all with being from the South.
And yeah. How it, [00:33:00] you know, even I was just saying to someone even like identifying as an American, like isn't something that I really think about. And I don't know if it's because, you know, neither of my parents grew up in the States, but it just has never, the geography of where I live has never felt like a huge identifier.
And so, yeah, I think if I had been trying to think through that similar lens, like, like you were saying, I think I would have been very at a loss for like what that identifier is for me. And I love the way that you found an "in" you found something that resonated with you more and it didn't have to look like this one thing of like, being like, "Yeah. I'm from the Bronx."
Like, no, it's, it's great to, to find what that means to you. And it's helped you create something that's more unique to who you are rather than to emulate, you know, what Jay Z does.
Smack: Yeah, and that is that's really, I, I think that's a, really, what you walked through is like, very much, like I was [00:34:00] like, yes, yes, yes that is like very much kind of the same head space that I was in also. And, so I think it's really important to have that awareness.
And then also like, yeah, my, one of my, one of my greatest fears is like, kind of there there's always, as someone who's creating something, there's always like a balance that you walk between, like taking inspiration from others. But then also if you go too far, then you're like just kind of trying to emulate and like copycat other people.
And like, one of my greatest fears is it like waking up one day and being like, "Oh my God, I've just been a total copycat this whole time. And I have no originality." Like nightmare scenario. So I try really hard, maybe with mixed results sometimes, but I try really hard to be aware of that and like steer away from that and like go more and more towards like things that are like more authentic.
Lili Torre: Yeah, but it's interesting though, because it, we're kind of circling back to that idea of comparison from earlier that like, I think it's important to understand a medium, right? So in this particular instance, rap [00:35:00] in order to be a successful, and I would even say authentic rap artist, you have to know the medium that you're, that you're trying to be a part of and the genre that you're trying to be a part of.
And you have to have that level of understanding of like, what are the things, what are the tropes that are identified frequently? You know, it's sort of like in, in theater, like you have to understand the rules and story structure. And you know, if you're composing, you know, like how to compose a song and like all of those things you have to understand and know them before you can really do it differently and bring that level of authenticity to it and be like, "Yeah, I know that so many rappers identify with being from certain places, but for me, it's more about the video game world or the, or nerd culture or whatever that is for you. But finding those connections I think is absolutely what makes it authentic.
Smack: Yeah. I think it's like, it's really important for like every teacher to be a student and like every student to be a teacher and like have like, I try [00:36:00] and have these almost like, like deliberate, kind of cycles. When I'm in like production mode where I'm like, okay, I need to like, make a new song. I need to write like f- four new tracks for this album that I'm putting together. I'll usually stop, like listening to a lot of new music or a lot of like new TV shows or new movies. I'll just like, if I need to watch something or listen to something, I'll just listen to something that's very familiar.
That's not going to necessarily like spark something else in me because I'm like, I need to actually draw from these reserves. I have actually have too many ideas. I have too many ideas. So let me like stop getting new ideas. And actually it's like, let me process and like, let me like water the seeds of ideas and like actually take time to watch them grow as opposed to like gathering more seeds.
But then on the flip side, like once I'm done with that and I'm like, okay, now I need like new inspiration for something else. I'll like, try and take a break from like, like put the pen down, stop writing so much. And let me actually just like intake and let me just like, be a student and like, let me just like be a [00:37:00] consumer and just like, like what's in this, listen to what people are doing, watch what people are doing. And then like, and then I'll go back into production mode later. So I try and like flip that switch.
Lili Torre: That's really interesting. Is there a way that you go about being intentional, but still open to what you're inputting? If that makes sense. So like going about finding what it is that you're going to consume.
Smack: Yeah. that's a good question. I, I like making lists, so I always just have like, lists of things that like, here's like all these like music artists that I want to check out, honestly, like, podcasts, are like a big source of like discovery, because they're, they're such a good way of like curating, like content.
There's so much content out there these days, and one way that content gets curated is like algorithms. That's probably the main way now, like Spotify and Facebook and Instagram, like they all have their built in ways of like, serving up content that they think you will like. [00:38:00] I like the podcast route. I think podcasts have been less dominated by algorithms than other, other forms of media, at least to this date, hopefully, fingers crossed.
So I find podcasts is this really like organic kind of like grassroots way of like. People just like... I listen to a podcast and they'll talk about like a movie I'm like, Oh, that movie sounds interesting. Or they'll like interview a music artist and I'm like, I've never heard of you. Let me add you to my like, listen next playlist. And then I might get some like weird spark of inspiration.
Lili Torre: Yeah, you're so right. That's such a great way to like, get out of the bubble because that's something that I feel a lot is, you know, even. Netflix, or like you were saying, like Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all of that. Like, it's so curated to be based on what you've already consumed. So even if you feel like "I'm picking something completely outside of the box, because like I've never heard of it before necessarily."
It's still based on who you've been and like what you've done in the past. And if you're really [00:39:00] trying to vary your inputs and your sources of information, you know, you're so right about podcasts. It's like, even if you only listened to the same handful of podcasts over, over and over. you know, if it's a guest format podcast, like this one, they're going to bring on a variety of guests and you have no control over the guests that they bring on. And you haven't curated that in any way.
And those people will bring in ideas and inspirations that you wouldn't have thought of. But even if it's not a guest style podcast, and it's the same host or hosts every week, they're talking about and unpacking different topics and different things are coming up based on their worldviews and what they're experiencing. And so it is such a great way to, to broaden that scope and sort of crack out of this, life of everything being curated by algorithms.
Smack: Yeah totally. So props to you for running a podcast!
Lili Torre: Oh, well, thank you. Yes, this was all just about how amazing [00:40:00] podcasts are. So keep listening everyone. I love that. And so now in, in these days, and in this time right now, are you mainly working on your music or are you also, are you currently working in a job as a product manager?
Smack: So I'm a product manager I work right now with the centers for Medicare and Medicaid. So like, yeah, big job, a big, big center, lots of Medicare and lots of Medicaid. and, lots of like technology that like needs to basically like keep the lights running, on that front.
So that's my, like, I guess day job. I get to work remotely for it. I was working remotely for them even before everyone started working remotely. And I think it's been a huge enabler for me to continue doing. Like, I, I don't really think I would be able to keep up the same level of energy and investment in my music and creative career if I had to go into an office every day, like I just, I did that before and I just, I can't imagine it being the case. So, yeah. Shout out to remote work. [00:41:00] I think it's uh gonna continue being an enabler for people who wanna do multiple things.
Lili Torre: Couldn't agree more. I think it's great. And I'm curious, so, because you work remotely, maybe your relationships with your coworkers aren't as deep, but I'm curious how much they know about Super Smack.
Smack: They know a little bit. What I've told them is like, I'm not going to share, like, I usually like to keep my lives per like, a little bit separated, which is actually some people I know who have two very different careers actually, don't, don't keep up this wall between them.
And they, they like having this, like, this like pronation between the two worlds. And I think that's great. And I, I might be in that state one day, but for now I like having, it's like easier to stay organized and like stay focused if I can just like switch focus.
So I've told my coworkers, I was like, if you... if you find me, if you find my music, like go listen to it all you want. And like, if you want to talk to me about it, like, I'll be happy to talk to you about it, but I'm not going to like, actively share this stuff with you. Like you do the work to [00:42:00] find out what my secret identity is.
Lili Torre: Yes. I love that it is like a superhero they don't need to know you're also Superman. You can just be Clark Kent to them.
Smack: I mean, Clark Kent, he's got a job to do too, you know?
Lili Torre: Exactly. He's a busy guy.
I love that. All right. Well, I want to wrap up with something that you were talking about earlier. You know, I think one of the really difficult things about being an artist is a dichotomy that you touched on earlier, which is this idea of like, what's next, like achieving one milestone and then deciding, you know, was that enough for me? Is there something different I want?
You know, so often I feel like for musical theater artists specifically, this happens with Broadway, right? Like you, you finally book the Broadway show, and then there are a lot of people who are like, "Okay, like I checked that box. Like I might be ready for something different now." And I think that that can [00:43:00] also come in a variety of different forms, even outside of just Broadway.
And so I'm curious, you know, how you use the idea of what's next and always wanting something more to stay motivated rather than kind of taking away from your joy and success in the moment while you're experiencing it.
Smack: That's a really good question. A really, really hard question. Okay. I'll preface this by saying: all of this is much easier said than done. So what I'm going to say is like what I aspire to, not necessarily what I always succeed in doing.
I think a lot of it really comes back to that, like, as you put it that Why, and like having that... like it's so cliche, like having that North Star and just like understanding, like, what is it, like, why are you doing the things that you want to do? You know, not necessarily defining yourself like using, you can use mediums and, industries and art [00:44:00] forms to help, describe you and define you, but you don't have to be defined just by those things.
You don't have to be limited just by those things. And so, like I got caught in this position recently where like I have multiple music projects in flight, so I just released the single, "Screens" which just dropped. I have like another music video that's almost done. I have an EP that all the songs are written for, I just haven't recorded them yet. And then I have an album that like, half the songs are written for. And I might do some other stuff along the way.
So I have this whole roadmap, like being a product manager is all about like having a plan and a roadmap. So that's probably why I have like all these things in flight. I just have like all these, like all these like cakes that are like baking in the oven, right? And recently. I was like, okay, I'm really excited to drop "Screens." But after that, I'm like, I'm really excited about the quality of these other projects, but I'm just like, something about the timing doesn't seem right.
And I took a step back and I realized that like what- I'm doing all this to like, try and help people even like my day job. I'm like, I hope I can help [00:45:00] people with, through, through that as well. But I took a step back from that and I was like, Oh shit. Like, I actually really. I really care about this upcoming election.
And I was like, I shouldn't have been surprised by that because like, it's something that a lot of, you know, a lot of people do care about and a lot of people should care about rightfully so. And I actually, like, I studied like international relations and like politics in school and stuff like. But like, I had so many other things going on that like, I didn't realize that I actually cared about it a lot. And I was like, Oh, that's, that's like, this is why I'm like, not that excited about the timing of releasing all these other things. So I was like, you know, like, let me just take these due dates for these projects like, I'm just going to push it back like two months.
And like, nobody's going to care that I push these things back. That's another thing about being like, kind of an independent or like self-sustained artist is like, I'm not part of a label. I'm not, I'm not making my music because someone else is paying me to. Or I [00:46:00] didn't sign a contract, I mean, when I realized, like I was in control of my own deadlines, I was like, okay, yeah, I'm going to push this, I'm going to be okay pushing these things back two months, I'm going to forgive myself and I'm going to give myself the permission to push back those timelines. And like for these, you know, a couple of fall months, like September, October, November, I'm going to volunteer. I'm gonna do like civic volunteering, I'm going to, so I have like gotten engaged in some like local politics. I'm in Arizona right now, which is the big swing state.
And that's allowed me to take this question of like, "Oh, what's next?" And turn that from something that was like a little bit of a stressful like situation to something that I like a plan that I feel much more balanced and comfortable with, and it helped that I was able to be like, Oh, music to me, I enjoy music in and of itself, but it's also means to an end. And that end was to try and help people. So if there's other ways that I feel like I can help people that don't involve music, if I feel like doing those instead of music, at least for a little bit of time, like that's okay. [00:47:00] And telling myself that that was okay was a big, was a big step.
Lili Torre: Yeah, well, and I feel like the ability to feel okay with that in part comes from the fact that like, there's, there's always something else that you're doing. You, you have a parallel career, you have never just been one thing. And so you can inherently see that you're capable of more than one thing at once.
And yeah, having that, that Why connection, that, that alignment to purpose is incredibly important. And I love how you utilize that as permission to go on your own terms and go at your own pace and work in your own way. And I think that that's such an important part of being able to take pressure off of yourself and to not get stuck or require yourself to make change in any one way, but being able to recognize all of the things that you're capable of. And I think that's really incredible.
[00:48:00] I love so much about your mindset. I feel like I could talk to you for like three hours. Cause everything you talk about it makes me think of like 10 million questions. So we'll definitely have to have another conversation, I think soon, because there's much more I want to talk about.
But, I will definitely be linking "Screens" in the show notes so that everyone can go check out your amazing work as well as some other things that you've worked on in the past.
And I'm so grateful that you took some time to share your story with us today. Thank you so much for coming on.
Smack: Thanks, Lili this was dope. Appreciate it.
Lili Torre: I seriously could have chatted with Smack for hours. Not only is his story a super interesting one, but his perspective on his work, the way he prioritizes things, and his ability to go with the flow are things I find amazing about him and his journey. He and his sister, Catherine are incredible examples of artists with parallel careers, and I can see how their journeys have informed each other. I'll be linking some of his work in the show notes for you to check out and enjoy.
I hope whatever you're doing [00:49:00] this holiday season, that it's a great one. As always, I'm so grateful to you for listening. My name is Lili Torre and this has been The Dreaded Question.