Lili talks with Erin Williams, founder of Erin's Faces and host of Beauty Full Stories podcast. They discuss how Erin began her parallel career journey, the inspiration behind her podcast, and her hopes for the future of Erin's Faces.
Episode Transcript
Erin’s Faces website
Erin’s Faces Instagram: @erinsfaces
Beauty Full Stories Podcast
The blog post that inspired Beauty Full Stories
Jen Waldman Studio
Simon Sinek talk at JWS
Start With Why by Simon Sinek
TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre
Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ Erin Williams
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello listeners. And welcome back to The Dreaded Question. I'm really excited to share today's episode because I got to record with the one and only Erin Williams, who I think of as one of the original parallel career rock stars. She's the creator of the skincare and makeup brand Erin's Faces, and her company is chock-full of purpose, positivity, and love.
And Erin has an incredible new podcast of her own called Beauty Full Stories, which I'll be linking in the show notes for you to check out. I've admired Erin from afar for quite a few years, and I finally got up the gumption to ask her to be on TDQ and here we are.
So without further ado, let's find out what Erin Williams is up to.
So Erin Williams, what are you up to?
Erin Williams: Hi Lili. I am up to running a business in a pandemic that employs other people and wanting to keep them employed [00:01:00] and keep me employed.
Yeah, I'm up to just sitting on the couch with my dog, which is lovely.
Lili Torre: Oh yes.
Erin Williams: Yeah. That's the short answer.
Lili Torre: I love it. It's a great answer. And it's not an answer that everyone can give. Not everyone owns an amazing small business and employs people and has an awesome dog.
Erin Williams: Thank you. The dog is probably the best part.
Lili Torre: Well I am so excited to be talking to you today because I have heard amazing things about you and Erin's Faces for years, it feels like.
Erin Williams: Oh, that's really nice. Thank you.
Lili Torre: of course. And I feel like it will be really amazing for TDQ's listeners to hear from someone who is a little bit further down the parallel career path than many of the people that I talk to and many of the people that I know. So I feel like you kind of started a parallel career before it was cool.
[00:02:00] Erin Williams: That's funny. Yeah, that's probably true.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And I'd love to hear more about what inspired your journey to start Erin's Faces.
Erin Williams: Sure. There were so many things that like melted into the inspiration, but I would say for actors, I had been working as a makeup artist at department store counters for years as my job, because it was a good job- it would be a terrible job right now, but it was a real good job back then because I could go and do a contract and then come back because I was a freelancer.
And so it was really flexible. I just tried to make myself really invaluable when I was there so they would miss me when I was gone and then they'd be happy when I came back. And so that happened. And then I started to really love doing makeup. And so I started to do more editorial stuff and [00:03:00] get booked on things like that.
And it all kind of came to a head at a particular fashion week that I was doing makeup for. And basically Beyonce's makeup artist was the lead make up artist on this show that I was working on fashion show. And it sounds, but there's a point to dropping that information.
Lili Torre: Drop it.
Erin Williams: Just drop it !
Because we spent all this time on these beautiful, colorful winged eyeliners. They were like green and turquoise and royal blue. And they were really pretty, and we spent a long time on them. And all of the models with like two exceptions ended up walking down the runway with huge sunglasses on totally covering everything. We had spent all this time working on.
And I was like, if Beyonce's makeup artists, like Beyonce's makeup artist, can't get her vision expressed. Like, what am I doing? Like this is, this is not for me. I really miss working with ordinary, normal humans who are just [00:04:00] trying to like get out of the door and feel good about themselves.
So that was one of the seeds of inspiration for Erin's Faces. I think in line with acting, I felt very out of control for having a career. I felt like I could do all the things, take all the classes, have the skill set that I felt was competitive and still not be right.
You know, and I got to work, but I didn't, you know, work non-stop. I wasn't able to like support myself on that career. And so I had to have something. And so then Erin's Faces just kind of unfolded out of... I think actors, the musical theater actors that I know don't really have like a medium switch they're either totally on or totally off, you know?
And so, and I feel like when you can't put that for me, when I couldn't put that energy into the [00:05:00] thing that I moved to New York City for, and had spent my life pursuing, at a certain point I started to just have to put it into something else.
And so I think I was 33 when I started, I think I had just turned 33 when I started investigating creating a brand. And I literally was like, "No big deal, I'll just make this and I'll sell it to people in my class." Cause I taught a makeup class and I had private clients and stuff. And I was like, I'll just this sell this to my people. It'll be something to do. And I absolutely did not intend to walk away from the theater industry, and start a completely different career.
Like if you had told me that was what was going to happen, I might've gotten scared. And I might've said, no, thank you. And I actually said, no, thank you twice in the summer. I am very like, I like [00:06:00] church, I like God. And I in the summer... this all kind of started to happen in February for me of 2000... I don't know, nine years ago. I'm not good at math, Lili.
And I think it was 2011. Yes, that's right. Okay.
Thank you. Thank you. And so that particular summer I had, you know, I was putting the brand together and I literally looked up and I was like, I wanna be on Broadway. Like, what are we doing? I don't want to do this. This is not it. And I energetically got the answer. Like, thanks so much for your vote. Put your head down and keep working, please. This is what we're doing.
And I was like, this sucks. And I, and that happened again in the fall. And then in November I launched it properly because I was like, okay, fine. And so this was an interesting thing for me, because with acting and singing and everything, like I very much, that was a desire that I had inside of me.
And I feel like Erin's Faces is something that I was [00:07:00] kind of handed and told you're in charge of this, do it. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't think so. Thanks so much. I want to do this other thing. And for me, it was God, you could be like universe or energy, whatever. You know, it was like, Hmm let's, let's keep walking down this path too.
And I thought I could have both. And at a certain point for me, I couldn't. And so that's when I was like, I don't think I'm going to auditions anymore, which felt really weird. And I felt guilty about it and like I had done something wrong and I hadn't, you know, I wasn't good enough to make it. And what did that mean?
And, you know, I had a lot, I had shame about it too, which was weird because I had this flourishing thing
Lili Torre: You should be so proud of.
Erin Williams: Yeah. And I, I felt that, but I definitely felt guilt and shame. And like, what if, and you know, it's, it's hard, it's hard.
Lili Torre: Thank you so much for sharing that [00:08:00] because it's... I don't know this for a fact, but I would assume at that time, what you were doing was a little bit more unheard of...
Erin Williams: yes. It was not, there were no books. I looked for them. And I also went online. Like there's no information at all. Yeah, I didn't know what I was doing remotely.
Lili Torre: Well, and, and even just the idea of an actor, having something else in their life and, you know, also, you know, owning a business like crazy talk, you know, that you're not committed then. And I think... I really appreciate you sharing the reality of how you felt, because I think what keeps a lot of people from starting parallel careers is that fear of, "But no, I'm an actor. I have a dream. I don't want to feel like I couldn't cut it. I couldn't make it. What if, what if I started this parallel career. And then that becomes my primary career and I'm not an actor anymore?"
Erin Williams: Well, it's funny too, because I had been chasing The Phantom of the Opera for [00:09:00] years and I... I finally had to release it because they just, they weren't feeling me. And I had stopped auditioning. I wasn't doing anything. We had moved to New Jersey. Like I was just doing Erin's Faces all the time.
And two years passed and they called me in for some Carlotta cover or something. No, it was a Madame Giry cover. And I go to my- I was studying with Andrew Byrne before... I mean, I hadn't been in, in like months. I was like, Hey, so I got this call and if seeing a high B so like, I used to do that really easily, but it's a little rusty up there, so let's work on this.
And so we talked about it and, you know, I did the audition. I felt really good, but there were two things that happened for me that were interesting in that moment. One, it totally shifted for me to, "Oh my gosh, this is a dream, and I want it!" to, "I'll make a lot of money [00:10:00] if I do this tour. And that's pretty sweet."
Cause I wasn't making any money with Erin's Faces. And I was like, and I can put that money into my company and that would be great. And I could pay somebody to just get orders out. I could handle social media while I was on the road. Like if I had like, it was not emotional at all. And that felt really different.
And then too, this was a swing track. So it was covering Giry and like, I don't know, some soprano in the ensemble. And I was like, I remember being in Andrew's room and we were talking about it and I was like, So I'm gonna go and be... no offense to whoever booked this. Good for you... but like girl, number three on the cour-, you know what I mean?
Like in the ensemble and I was like, and I'm the lead in Erin's Faces. Like I direct it, I produce it, I star in it, like everything. And there's a lot of pressure and weight and like tremendous amount of work that [00:11:00] goes along with that. But I'm getting to do what... I mean with limitations because you don't have unlimited funds and stuff like that, but, you know, it's my show or I can go and be under someone else's domain, basically.
And I was like, I don't know if that's my dream anymore. Like that doesn't and I'm away from my husband. Like, I like my house. I like my dog. Like I like my husband too. And, you know, I was like, I don't know if that's it. And I didn't end up booking it, so I didn't have to make a choice, but it was an interesting moment for me where I was like, okay.
And I was talking with Andrew too. Cause we were like, okay, we could do Carlotta. We could get the D cause I think she like sings a D like acapella or something, it's insane for me. And he was like, you can get it. You just really have to work on it. And I was like, you know what? It's not that deep for me.
Like, I'm good. I don't need to work that hard for something that like, I would feel so insecure about for months, you [00:12:00] know, and he was like, okay, then I think we just let it go. And I was like, yeah, I think we do. Great! And it felt so freeing to release something that like, I didn't really want to do.
Lili Torre: What an amazing opportunity for like closure and to, yeah, to sort of peek back down the path of like what could have been and to realize that like, that's cool, and I loved that once and there would be pros to doing something like that. But the, the cons of, you know, having to take away from my business and missing my husband and missing my dog and all of that. Like, it's just not worth it to me anymore.
And I remember there was a, this was before I started taking class at the Jen Waldman Studio, but Simon Sinek came and did like a, a talk and a Q & A, and it was on YouTube. I assume it still is. If it is, I'll link it in the show notes.
But in that talk, he said he will talk to a lot of artists and, [00:13:00] and say, you know, like, why are, why are you an artist? Why are you an actor? And people will say something like, "Oh, like, I love to give people an escape" or, you know, "I, I want to make people happy," or something like that. And his response to that is always like, "Oh, really like, that's why you live in an apartment that's too small and pay way too much money in rent and work in a restaurant job that sucks your soul and you don't get to go home for holidays and you can never plan a vacation and you didn't go to your sister's wedding."
And like all of those things, like just so other people can have an escape for two hours? And I know the, his real point was about, you know, getting in touch with your true purpose, the real reason that you do this, but what it really illuminated to me was like, just how much we as artists and actors give up for this career.
And it really made me consider like, what am I getting back? And is it enough? And is it worth it? And that was a huge [00:14:00] shift for me. And a lot of, you know, definitely one of the, like you said, looking back on something, there's so many different things that kind of come together to help you create it. But for me, that was one of the stepping stones towards creating this podcast and creating my workshops all because I realized that many people might feel the way that I do that maybe the return on the investment is not enough.
Erin Williams: Yeah. But I loved doing it, and I think back to being just even in class, cause I took at Jen's, you know studio as well and the friends that I have, a lot of them are from that because you're spilling your guts out every week, you know, like you just really get to know people, people that you do shows with you've had such an intense bond.
I feel like all of those things have tremendous value and getting to do something you're really good at is fun. You know, like it is really fun. You know, but I do think with time when you're [00:15:00] like, is this enough, what you said, am I able to get to a place where this is fulfilling me?
And I feel as for me, I was lacking purpose because I had, I wasn't getting the opportunities that I was going in for, you know, on a consistent basis. And with my day job, I was helping people, but it was on a very micro scale and I didn't feel purposeful at shoots and at fashion shows, I just didn't. It's not where I, I think some people do feel really purposeful there and we need those people, you know, cause shoots and fashion shows happen. So we need those people.
I felt most purposeful with my friends and my family and helping them feel more confident and whether that was through skincare or whether that was through makeup and understanding how to use what they had and what each step in their makeup routine was actually accomplishing and [00:16:00] looking at it that way. And that made me feel purposeful. And I had control over that. Like I could do it.
So that's how that path kind of opened up and I never would have imagined where we are now.
It was not, not in my plan.
Lili Torre: It's amazing to see how much it's grown and how far you've come. And it definitely makes me curious about the beginnings because so many people that I talk to on this podcast, the majority of them, I think offer some type of service and it's such a different business model than offering a physical product.
And so I'm always so curious to talk to people who offer a physical product about how, I mean, especially with something like skincare and makeup, like, how did you go about coming up with formulas? And I, you know, I know that you're a PETA certified cruelty-free, like all of that. Like, how did you make that happen?
Like you said, at the time they were, [00:17:00] you couldn't find any books to like help you do this. Like, how did you figure all of this out?
Erin Williams: Trial and error. Really. I remember doing a show, it was 1776, so like people are onstage and then some of them, most of them are, the men are on stage the whole time. But like there's some that only come on like a little bit. And one of those guys was in his dressing room and I was just walking by and he was on his computer and I was like, what are you doing? You know, like what's going on? Cause I was a woman, so I was on stage for 15 minutes and then I was done.
And he was like, "Oh, I'm doing some graphic design work for a client." And I was like, hold on, you're making money while you're making money? What? What's happening? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, that's amazing.
And it's like lodged in me somewhere. And for me, that's what a product is like, I've created this thing and I'll get to your question, I promise. But I think this is important because I could have gone the makeup artist route. Do you know what I mean?
Lili Torre: Yeah.
Erin Williams: And [00:18:00] I did that honestly, for years, like I did a lot of weddings. I did a lot of red carpets. I did a lot of makeup lessons, all that stuff. But I got to tell ya, you're limited because it's you, and it's how you're feeling today. Are you okay? Like, meaning are you sick or not? And if you're not great, you could go do this.
But, and also for me, it was a lugging a kit on the subway because I was too cheap to take a taxi. And so I'm lugging, you know, 30 to 50 pounds depending on the gig on the subway down the street, like changing my shoes so they look cute when I get there, you know, like stupid stuff. And I just was like, I have zero desire to continue to do this unless I like create a shop.
And I lived in Queens and I was like, no, one's going to come to Sunnyside Gardens to get their makeup done. They're just not. So I'm going to always have to travel. Do I want to do that? And anyway, so...
[00:19:00] So the product idea or the online class idea, you know, like something, I liked a lot because I was like, I could literally be asleep and someone's ordering something and I like that, but it has to be awesome. So how do we find something awesome?
So I went, they have trade shows for makeup and skincare and stuff. So that's honestly how I started because there was, there's very little online now about labs and things like that. There was less 10 years ago, way less. And so you kind of had to go in person to this stuff.
So I would go to these trade shows and meet people, try samples, and then you know, decide if I liked the samples that they had and then kind of decide to work... I wasn't someone who was like mixing junk up in my kitchen. Like that's not derogatory. There are people who have sold their companies to L'Oreal and made millions of dollars that started that way. [00:20:00] So good on you. If that's where you are.
I was a theater major, and I was not a chemist. So I felt very comfortable. I mean, now we actually do make some of our products ourselves. But most of them are made in a lab and I felt very clearly like, I know what I'm good at, and I know what I'm not good at.
And formulation was not something that I felt confident in. But I did feel really confident in the makeup portion of things, because I had been doing it at a very high level for a long time. So I felt like I knew finishes, colors, performance, you know, stuff like that. And then the skincare, I knew the oily acne prone stuff, and I would try that. And then everything else I had... honestly, I remember in Jen's class, I passed out samples to the whole class, like for a while. And I would be like, okay, I want you to use this and then report back in a week. Cause I was going to see them in a week, you know?
[00:21:00] If I was friends with you, you were trying stuff for me. Kind of on a regular basis while I was putting it together and any time I add new stuff in, if you're near me, I'm like, Hey, let me throw this on you? Or can you take this home and try it and see if you like it. So does that answer your question?
Lili Torre: It does. I mean, because that was kind of what I was thinking is like, did you mix things up in your kitchen? Like how did you know it was safe? How did you know...? You know, that is something that would be so overwhelming to me, but you know, I didn't know that trade shows like that existed
Erin Williams: If you just Google your genre and trade show and you live in New York City, chances are high it's going to work out. I mean, not right now because everything's shut, but when things get back to being open. I think that that will, that, that I think is really useful. And you can just, literally, just even like going to a wholesale trade show was helpful for me, not people that were labs or anything, but just seeing like, who else exists and how are they presenting [00:22:00] themselves? And what am I drawn to and why am I drawn to that?
And how can I, then... everyone's copying everyone else. Like there's very few original ideas on the planet, right? So I was drawn to the people that had a lot of like botanicals in their booth and, you know, it was flowers and plants and like that kind of thing. And I really liked that. I wasn't drawn to very like Brooklyn aesthetic, like very modern and clean and Scandinavian looking.
Like I thought it was beautiful, but it's not, that's not who I am. I'm a little more... Messy. I'm a little more earthy. So I think finding those things out, if you are creating a brand, go look at other people's stuff and steal what you like.
Lili Torre: Yes, exactly. Well, it'll be inherently different because it's through a different person.
Erin Williams: Yeah. And I looked, I remember when we were like, I was figuring out what my logo was going to be, which [00:23:00] I didn't have until like four years into my brand, which I don't recommend. I think you should have, like, I mean, I had a logo, but it was a times new Roman font in a circle , Erin's Faces and Sue Berch from JWS did it for me, it was really sweet. And now she does my labels for me because she's an amazing production artist. Shout out to Sue. She's amazing.
But I was looking at, you know, it's funny. I was really drawn to like a bunch of like, it's funny, cause I don't drink, but a bunch of like liquor bottles that are really clean and simple, but I also was really drawn to these Victorian seed packets that had really like ornate letters and stuff. And you can totally see who won if you look at my logo. Not the cool, like vodka people, like the corseted ladies with big hats, like that's who won, surprise!
So yeah, but I will say if you're starting a company, I will say for a logo, I recommend having it on one [00:24:00] line and I recommend having it in a font that people can read because mine is on two lines and it's hard when you want to put it like on a pencil or something like that.
And all the time people can't read what my logo says. And I don't care anymore. Cause I'm like, whatever, it is what it is, but I, I like it, but I would probably do it differently if I knew that.
Lili Torre: Well, of course, I'm sure there are a million little things that you would do differently with the knowledge that you have now. But I mean, everything that you've done has gotten you to where you are, so it can't have been that big of a deal.
Exactly. I think that's so cool. And I'm... it's so funny to hear all of that, because you know, of course I've looked at your website and the branding is just like so clear to me and so strong and yeah, totally gives me that like earthy, almost like Apothecary sort of like, yeah.
It's, it's beautiful. And it [00:25:00] feels very much in alignment with what you're saying was your mission behind all of this and, and why you wanted to do it. So I'm curious where you first started selling your products, where you selling them, like in person, or did you start e-commerce immediately?
Erin Williams: Yeah. E-commerce was how it started. I had a launch party again, JWS is like the connector for everything. My friend Diana is the one who introduced me to Jen, and Diana hosted basically my launch party in her party room in Tribeca. But after that it was online and I realized pretty quickly, like I don't, I'm not making any sales because all my friends are actors, and actors don't have a lot of money though. They will spend it on their face, which I appreciate, because they know what's up.
But, you know, it was friends and family. I had... my husband was out of work when I launched my company. And I was still working at counters and still auditioning and doing everything, but like, [00:26:00] You know, so we needed some extra, we needed more money to pay the rent and things like that.
So I was like, I need to sell more of this product because I've invested in the inventory of it. That is the challenge of having a product like a physical product is you have to buy it first and then sell it, generally speaking. And you have to have a place to put it. And we lived in a two bedroom apartment in Queens that was probably 900 square feet at the best, you know?
So that's really, it was in like a 10 by 13 room on an Ikea, like six foot shelf. Like that's where everything fit, which is funny now, because now we're in a 2,800 square foot space, and we're kind of bumping out a little bit. So it's, it's just crazy.
Anyway. So I was like, I think I should go and share this with people. So I was pretty clear, no, I was actually really clear on what my mission with Erin's Faces was. Because I hadn't, I had really been looking for purpose, [00:27:00] right? And when I was like, okay, fine, we're doing this. I was like, then it has to be tremendously purposeful. And what is the purpose? And so the purpose had to be really clear for me, which was to empower and educate women.
And after having so many years of women sitting in my chair and being so massively insecure. And also not knowing how to do stuff. Being expected to know how to do stuff, being expected to know why you put a serum on before moisturizer, being expected to know how to do a perfect winged eyeliner rolling out of the womb, you know, because you're a girl .
You know, all these expectations are on women and it made me so sad to see with very little, like if I got someone who is confident in my chair, it was like a rarity. And so I was like, I would love to assist you know, as much as I can, in women feeling good about themselves and knowing how to achieve what they [00:28:00] want. So that was really clear to me.
So I have that in my heart as they say, and I decided three months after we launched, it was February of 2012. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go to Texas because that's where I was from. That's where I am from all the time. That's where I'm from. Still from there. And that's where I had family. And I had friends that I had gone to college with and stuff.
So I was like, I'll go do a version of this class that I had been teaching, you know, in New York City for years. And I'll just add in the skincare portion of it. So it was a, it's basically a skincare and makeup masterclass. It later got termed a green beauty workshop because then we started going down a clean and green, you know, lane.
But I didn't start there. I started as a conventional beauty brand because clean beauty was not a thing 10 years ago. And certainly not in the professional [00:29:00] makeup world, it was not a thing. So I was like, okay I'm going to put, together, I think I have, like, I don't know, six or eight of them booked like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday two on Saturday two on Sunday, I was going to get to see my family and then I would come home.
It was, it was a lot of work and each thing probably lasted three or four hours plus set up and break down. So there it's a lot of standing up and talking to people. And I was really clear, and again, I worked on this with Jen, when I don't remember what the class was that she taught, but we read Start With Why. And my M.O. in life is to love people. Like, that's my, that's what I feel like I'm here to do is to love other people.
And so I got really clear before I left to go to Texas... you know, it was a big investment for me. I had to stay at people's houses. There were no hotels. I was not renting cars. My friends were driving me around. [00:30:00] Like, it was very, very, like not professional.
And my stuff, just so we're all clear if you go to my website right now, I think it looks very pretty and very nice. My first products, which is what was this round we're P touch label makers. And a circle logo, as I said, Times New Roman font: Erin's Faces. The end, no ingredients, no FDA compliance, I didn't even know what that meant. And so they did not look cute, nothing looked cute at all.
And so I prayed before I went and I said, I just want to love people. And that's my real job. And that's what I want to do. And I said, okay. So I got to my college roommate's house and, you know, I brought all this stuff, I've spent money on tickets to get there. It was a three-way ticket because I had to go to Fort worth and then Houston and then home.
So it was a big investment for me. And I think my [00:31:00] husband was potentially still unemployed at this point. So setting the scene for you, Lili. So...thank you.
So we get there, and I think four people came to the workshop, which takes three or four hours to do. And I think they spent $150, and I got so overwhelmed. My friend said that I was on her pullout couch, and I was like, I don't know how this is going to work because I had- my computer as a side note was also dying. And so I had to buy a new computer and I was hoping to buy it with the money that I made on this trip because I had an e-commerce business and you have to have a computer to run any e-commerce business.
And so I got really overwhelmed because I was like, if we make $150, like I'm not even going to pay for my trip.
If that's what we do for the next, you know, however many times we're doing this. And I don't know, I don't know if this is going to work [00:32:00] and it just came really clearly to me. What's your job? Is your job to sell stuff? No. Your job is to love people. Did you love those people tonight? Yes, I did. Okay. That's what we're here to do, so suck it up.
So that's what I went in- and that's how I had gone into that night PS, but it just had tanked. And so the next night I was like, I'm here to love people. This is what I'm here to do, and I'm going to love the heck out of them. And so I did, we had a lot more people show up to this particular one. And I think that we sold and I say we a lot. It was me. Like, it was, I was alone. Like there was no else there, there were people there, but it was just me for a long time.
I sold $1800 that night. Yeah. And I was like, okay. And then that set the tone for the rest of the time. And I ended up selling [00:33:00] $9,000 over the course of that week. And I think it's important to say numbers because no one ever does. And I think it's helpful.
So what I had to make was $2,000 to pay for my trip and buy a computer. Because if you sell $2000, that's not what you actually get to take home with a product. Right. Cause your product costs you money and stuff.
And so to make $9000 now is not a lot of money, but like then was like I had made a million dollars. Like that's what I felt like. I was like, I'm rich! We're going to totally... and, you know, and I just pushed it all back into the company.
And so that also gave me clarity, like, and I didn't think about it then, but when I look back on it, now, my products did not look cute. They were good products. But they didn't look pretty. And it was my sharing of... I'm not going to say it was me, but it [00:34:00] was people trusting me. That's what it was.
Lili Torre: Yeah. I mean, I think it's this really cool intersection of what we were talking about earlier between like product and service that you are offering physical products, of course, and that's what you're selling, but there's also a service element. And I mean, it's called Erin's Faces. Like, it's not... like your name is part of it. You are inherently part of it. It's just also more scalable than if you were the one who has to, you know...
Erin Williams: go do your makeup every time. Yeah. Well, and I will say I care a lot, like I, to this day, like I had no money when we started, you know, so I knew what it was to buy something and how... I mean, I wouldn't buy organic apples because they cost too much, you know what I mean? And And so I know what it is to need to budget.
And so if someone would trusted me and gave me their money, like I wanted to be worthy of it. And that's how I [00:35:00] feel to this day. Like I want to be worthy of people. I want to be of service to our clients. And I probably don't nail that perfectly every time, but that's my motive and that's where I'm coming from. And I think most people feel that when they have an exchange with me or with our team, because that's what I want our team to lead with too, you know?
Lili Torre: Absolutely. I mean, it's so cool to hear, especially remembering that, you know, you said this was about nine years ago, just as I said, that you were a trendsetter with parallel careers because you had one before they were cool. I feel the same way about the product and the service that you were offering, because I think nowadays there's a little bit more awareness of skincare and like the education behind all of that. It may not all be like, you know, super accurate or correct, but I think the average skincare consumer is a bit [00:36:00] more knowledgeable nowadays, especially with like YouTube and TikTok and all of that. And people are just also more aware of ingredients and what it means to be, you know, like you said, clean beauty wasn't a thing.
And it's amazing that you were doing all of this, you know, back nine years ago before all of that. And I think it's kind of giving me an aha moment that I think part of being, I don't really want to say a trendsetter, but like ahead of the curve in things like that comes from being purpose-driven. That when you genuinely have a purpose and genuinely want to help people and genuinely in your case, want to love people, you are able to see what their needs are and where the gaps are for them. And then you can fill them.
Erin Williams: Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's a nice thing of you to say. I think, yeah, it's listening. It's caring. Because when you listen, this is in life, you know what I mean? When we listen, we hear what what you just said, what [00:37:00] people need, what people want, what they're looking for.
And I will say what I didn't know, while I was standing at those counters for 10 plus years was I was listening to women, tell me what they wanted. And I had no idea that I was having a daily focus group. So by the time I got to the labs and they would be like, Oh, this kind of color sells really well. I'm like, that's not my person. She's not looking for a frosted metallic pink lip gloss. Thank you so much. Like, no, and they're like, it sells great. And I'm like, no, that's no, I don't. Nope. That's not for me, that's not my person. And I knew who she was and I knew what she wanted because I had been listening to her for years,
And that was nice, because I didn't realize that until way later
Lili Torre: Yes. It's one of those, like connecting the dots, looking back situations where you're like, wow, this actually all set itself up perfectly. I just couldn't see it in the moment. [00:38:00] And it does kind of make me think, you know, one really cool thing about your story that you've shared with us so far is how involved your theatrical skills, your theatrical community, all of that was in creating this business that's, you know, essentially separate from theatre.
Erin Williams: Yes, I that's absolutely true. And that also was kind of a, Oh yeah. Like, you know, kind of looking back. A lot of my first clients were JWS people, were people that I went to auditions with ... because those are the people that would come into Sephora when I was working for a brand in Sephora or Bergdorf Goodman when I was working there and be like, "I need help."
So I was someone they were used to turning to. And so then they just continued to do that. And I, I just had a different thing that I was sharing now. And I also will say being a brand founder, I talked to a lot of indie beauty brand founders. And a lot of [00:39:00] them are so uncomfortable, like doing Instagram stories or doing videos,and I'm like, where do you want me? You know what I mean?
Yeah. And so I think there is so much, and also being told no all the time, just to be honest about it. Like I'm not devastated when a store says no, to like wholesaling us or something. I'm like, okay, fine. I'm awesome. It's okay. Someone else will want it. And that... I think because we've, you know, sitting in the Equity building, you know, for hours and like all this stuff, like you get told no all the time and it's not devastating. It's just like today, not for you. Fine. No problem. I'm going to go somewhere else. And I'm going to continue to get better at what I do by going to classes and whatever, dah, dah, dah.
And for me with Erin's Faces the way that I transfer that, [00:40:00] continuing to get better, was clean beauty. You know, as I learned more as the world started to learn more and I personally started to learn more about ingredients that may or may not be great for you, you know, I just didn't feel responsible because I knew I didn't feel responsible selling that.
Because I personally knew every client that I had and I didn't want it to be like, "Hey Ashley," who I, know really well and love and care about, "you should use this lip gloss that has chemicals in it, petroleum by-product, you know, and stuff that could hurt you, because you're absolutely going to eat it cause it's on your mouth, but you should give me money for it anyway." Like I can't, I can't do that.
And so I felt a responsibility to take care of people who were again, trusting me with their money.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And I think that that level of responsibility is, is so rare in the [00:41:00] larger corporations, you know, it's, it's really something that you see in these smaller businesses. And I think, you know, it's such a good reason to support small businesses because they, they do have that level of, of care and responsibility. And you're such a great example of that.
I'm also really curious about the podcast that you started, Beauty Full Stories, such a cute title. Love it. I, I want to know what inspired you to start that.
Erin Williams: Yeah. So I wrote an article. It's not really an article. It was a blog post, on our blog on our website. It was actually a year ago
Lili Torre: Oh, my gosh, happy early birthday!
Erin Williams: Thank you very much. And it was my 42nd birthday and I wrote this piece called Am I Too Heavy to Run a Beauty Company?
And I had [00:42:00] no idea the amount of DMs, calls, texts, emails, comments on the blog that we would get I've never had more engagement on anything. And I think it's because women relate to feeling like something is wrong with their body, right? Or something that they're not measuring up to what they're supposed to look like on some level. Like, I think for the most part is a really universal theme, unfortunately.
And then, so I was talking with Jen Waldman, who we know and love about, you know, I'd been kind of nurturing this idea of a podcast for a few years actually, but didn't... you know, it's a fricking ton of work. And so I didn't have time to do it for a couple of years. And then when I actually was like, I think I can create, like I had team members in place doing stuff that I used to just do by myself. I was like, okay, I have pockets of time, now I can do this. What do I want to talk [00:43:00] about?
And In talking with Jen and, you know, just being like podcasting, for her, and I agree the best podcasts are stories and people's experiences and stuff like that. And I was like, I have clients who have all these different experiences about hair, acne, hyperpigmentation, aging, you know, kind of, I won't say superficial, but more surface-y, which is what mine was, weight, you know stories.
And I was like, when, when I got feedback from women about that post, the thing that kept getting repeated was, "You saying this out loud, you sharing this publicly, makes me feel seen, makes me feel heard because you're sharing my story." And so I was like, I bet if we share other people's stories, then more people will feel seen and heard.
And so as I started [00:44:00] talking to different women, that absolutely started happening. And I can only share my experience, but I don't know what it's like to, you know, be a Black woman growing up in California, surrounded by white kids and think that my hair should be straight because that's what all my girlfriends look like. And that's everything that's being served to me in the media.
But lots of other people have that experience. And so, you know, and hair comes up a lot, and race comes up a lot and colorism comes up a lot, and motherhood, not having children, career. Then you get into like abuse, you know, because it happens to women a lot, unfortunately. And you talk about divorce and, you know, relationships and it's, it kind of has morphed into this just women's stories thing.
And the thing I really like about it is with Erin's Faces, everything is about me. You know, it's my perspective, it's my take, it's my advice on how to use this particular product. And [00:45:00] I like all that, I liked being in charge, don't get me wrong. But I really love, I have this teeny tiny little platform and I really love having the opportunity to shine a light on other women's stories on women's stories, just period to help dismantle all this nonsense that we are taught we need to adhere to. And that is what I should have said at the beginning of this question, but that is the point of it.
But that's kind of how it came to be, it unfolded really naturally, and I'm really grateful for it. It's given me new friendships you know, and it really has elevated my sense of urgency to change the world, man. You know, like I feel like there's so much we need to be doing to support each other. And there's so much, especially, you know, in the news and in the media that like is really divisive and wants to, I feel, really take things apart. And I think part [00:46:00] of that is listening, you do have to listen to people's stories and they are going to make you uncomfortable and you are going to have to acknowledge stuff that you don't...doesn't feel good, you know? But I think if there's a willingness there just to listen, then I think we can, we can change world!
Like that's how I feel about it.
Lili Torre: Yes. I mean, that's part of what I love about podcasts is that, you know, they are, I agree with Jen that the best podcasts are sharing people's stories and that, as the listener, you can't interrupt. Like, I mean, I guess you can try, but they don't hear you. So they're going to keep talking. And I think that that's part of what makes podcasts so effective.
And there's, there's so much, I love about what you just said. One is that, you know, this idea of bringing on women to share their stories of their different struggles. And it's like as a brand, you can address some of these types of issues through your skincare.
You know, if, if someone really struggles with acne, like you [00:47:00] can come out with a product that addresses that. But if that's not something that you've ever dealt with, there's a certain level to which you, you could still create a really great product, but you don't have that real, human, deep understanding of the problem of, of the emotional toll that something like that takes.
And so I'm sure that as a brand, it makes you a better brand in general for you know, being able to market those products appropriately and really get to the message of what those people need and also to create products that really are cutting to the core of what people with those issues need. So I think that's really cool, but I also think it's a great way for you to sort of create a more, a holistic brand experience. Holistic meaning, the whole of who you are as Erin, that storytelling part of you and your history story.
So now you get to [00:48:00] utilize that skill even more as part of Erin's Faces, which I think is just incredible. I love that.
Erin Williams: Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I will say it's... everything you said is totally true. I'm fortunate because we started so small. Like I've been hearing this stuff from my clients from day one, like what they want, what's not working, what they're nervous about, what they feel insecure about. That's just been the relationship that I've been able to have, because I think I knew everybody, you know, in the beginning.
And then I didn't really know how to shift gears to a more quote unquote professional tone when I started to not know people. And I think that I honestly felt like initially, like, Am I allowed to talk, like, can I start emails with, Hey, y'all? Like, like I've been doing for years, now that I don't know most of our clients personally anymore, you know. And, and I was like, yeah, I don't know how else to write an email to you, you know, as a [00:49:00] group.
And I think that has come up as one of the reasons people like our brand- just in case someone is listening to this, and was trying to figure out a brand, you know, and all that stuff, and I know Jen, if you're in Jen's class is really big on this too, but like what you bring makes it special and makes it unique.
Because let me be clear, it is very hard to have a unicorn situation in the beauty world. Like. It's lip gloss. Do you know what I mean? So I think what is different and I just, you know, my grandmother and people that meet me are like, Oh, you have a company you should go on Shark Tank.
And I just hear I hear Kevin O'Leary being like, what makes you different? And I'm like, me! I'm what makes me different. And my perspective, and, you know, then his argument is you could get hit by a bus, which is true and it's kind of a downer, but you know, I think that as long as I'm alive, then I think that valuing what you bring to the [00:50:00] table and it's not going to be for everyone, but it is going to be for someone and it's going to matter to them and it's going to make them feel seen and heard. And that is such a special thing to get to do with someone and that I don't feel like I'm doing it for someone because I feel like it's a very give and take, especially with the podcast.
Lili Torre: I love it. I mean, it sounds like you've really created a unique experience. Like if you buy your makeup and skincare from like, L'Oreal like, you're not going to have that experience, which is fine. Like that's not what they do. But I just think that again, what you were saying about like bringing you to it, bringing your uniqueness and, you know, and I think what you were saying about, you know, what happens if you get hit by a bus?
I think part of that is when you bring people on board and you bring in employees or, you know, whoever you're working with and collaborating with making them really clear on what it means to be part of Erin's Faces and creating that [00:51:00] culture, which can live on, you know, past your involvement.
Erin Williams: It's so funny. I never thought about any of that. Like if you did get hit by a bus, but like a sense of legacy, like it didn't occur to me. And I remember I was listening to, Oh, I can't remember it might've been the founder of Drunk Elephant, it might've been Ilia, and she was talking about getting I dunno, they were talking about taking on money from venture capitalists are getting acquired by a brand or bought or something, I don't remember.
But her whole thing was, she looked at it from, I want my brand to live past me. She was like, I look at Estee Lauder and you know, these like Elizabeth Arden and these, you know, brands that were created by women and are alive today, and the founder is not.
And everyone has like a concept of what that means. And so I think that is a really interesting idea to have legacy. What does that mean for you? How do you achieve it? And I think what you said is absolutely correct. It's how [00:52:00] well you communicate that to your people, whether it's people that work for you or people who are your clients. So, yeah. I just think it's an interesting thing that we don't, I had certainly not thought about until she said that in an interview, I can't really remember who she is, but whoever she was and I thought, Oh, Oh, Erin's Faces could be around in like 50 years. That's weird. A hundred years. That's really weird. What does that mean? What do we have to do?
Lili Torre: Right. And what do I want that to look like? Because I think even like the brands you mentioned, I wonder how in alignment with the original vision they are today, you know, and the founder isn't around to steer the ship anymore. So how do you ensure that, that the company finds a balance between preserving the original value and values while still innovating? I think that's really interesting.
Well to wrap up today, I would [00:53:00] love to know the question, I'm sure, on everybody's lips, which product from Erin's Faces are you most jazzed about?
Erin Williams: Ugh this is hard...
Lili Torre: I know it's like picking between your children, I'm sure.
Erin Williams: Yeah. I have like 60 children apparently.
Okay, so I can't pick one, but I will pick. Under five. The first one I love is the cheapest thing that we carry it, but it's beautiful and it's USDA certified organic. So I don't mean to imply that it is cheap ingredient deck. I love our lip balm. I think it's so good. I grew up on chapstick on mint chapstick. My dad used it. We got it in like multi-packs from the grocery store.
And if you grew up on chapstick, like literal chapstick, then you want something that's a little like oily and mushy, you know, kind of makes your lips feel kind of like that. And the cleaner ones tend to make you feel like, you know, like wax, too waxy.
And [00:54:00] so this lip balm is this under $5 item that I'm waxing poetic about is like amazing because it's this magical balance of like, goopy and waxy and I'm obsessed with it. And my dad that will not switch over very easily now just uses our lip balm.
Lili Torre: Wow.
Erin Williams: I feel like that is the ultimate testimony.
The other thing that I. Oh, I really love our serums. For me, I am oily breakout prone, and a lot of serums are targeting a normal combination or dry skin. And I wanted all the lifting for me, elastic. You know, elasticity, rejuvenating, the benefits of a serum, but all of them broke me out or were too heavy, you know, made me want to claw my face off.
So our clarifying serum, we have three, we have them for those people, but the one that I made for me is the clarifying serum and I love it because [00:55:00] it's targeting a breakout prone, skin, oily skin, but also has all of these amazing ingredients that the other guys have too, but they're in a cocktail that won't jack your face up.
I like our mascara. It's new. It's fantastic. It took me nine years to figure it out and I'm obsessed with it.
Lili Torre: I’ve heard great things about the mascara.
Erin Williams: It's really good...
Lili Torre: Well, Erin, thank you so much for taking some time to share your story today. It's just so cool to hear how ahead of the parallel career curve you were and you know, how you continue to innovate and question things. I think you're really paving the way for a lot of people and I'm just so grateful that you shared your story with us today.
Erin Williams: I think that is very nice of you to say Lili. I think that makes me sound way fancier than I am, but that's very kind. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I love what you do. And I think the work that you're doing with this podcast is really special and helps and will help so many people.
[00:56:00] Lili Torre: I absolutely loved chatting with Erin. In editing back today's episode, I got to thinking about the fact that regardless of what happens with Erin's Faces, a part of her legacy will be the fact that she's paved the way for other actors and artists to find their parallel paths, and we should all be grateful to her for that.
I also loved what she shared about connecting with her customers and how organically it grew from her years at the beauty counter. It got me thinking, what is your version of standing at those counters, listening to your future customers telling you what they want? What's your daily focus group, as Erin put it? How can you show up fully and pay attention to what you're doing, even if it's a survival job, and learn something that you can take forward with you into different paths?
She definitely left us with loads to think about, not the least of which is her amazing skincare and makeup products, so I'll definitely be linking her website in the show notes, and I'll probably do a little shopping while I'm at it. And I'll also link her podcast, Beauty Full Stories, for you to check out and [00:57:00] enjoy.
I hope that you enjoyed today's episode and that if you did, you'll share it on social media or send it to a friend. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Lili Torre, and this has been The Dreaded Question.