Lili chats with Hannah Richter: actor, dog trainer, and author of 2 books on dog training! They discuss how Hannah followed her interests to start a parallel career in dog training, the different experiences she's had in her career as a dog trainer vs. her acting career, and how constraints help her writing process.
Episode Transcript
Hannah's instagram: @hannahandherdogs
Hannah's book, Teach Your Dog New Tricks
Carly Valancy's Reach Out Party
TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre
Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ Hannah Richter
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello listeners, and welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre, and this week I get to welcome my old friend, Hannah Richter.
Hannah and I met several years ago at Hope Summer Repertory Theater, and I've had the joy of watching from afar over the past few years as she has developed a career in dog training, seemingly overnight. Of course, I knew that her parallel career didn't just magically pop up, so I knew I had to have her on TDQ to share her story with us.
And of course, as an added benefit, I knew that she'd have some great tips for those of us who got a dog during COVID, and for those of you who might be considering hopping on the doggie bandwagon. Do it, dogs are the best! And if you don't have a dog, there's still tons of amazing parallel career noodles in this episode, so you won't be left out.
So without further ado, let's find out Hannah Richter's answer to The Dreaded Question.
So Hannah Richter, what are you up to?
[00:01:00] Hannah Richter: Hello, I'm so excited to be here. I am currently writing my second book. It's called Clicker Training for Dogs, and it is a positive dog training book for dogs of all ages breeds, sizes, levels. And I am so excited about it.
Lili Torre: That is so cool. Like not only are you writing a book, which is already super cool, but you're writing your second book. Like what a badass! Did you ever think that you would be writing books?
Hannah Richter: No, literally never. I love to tell people if you would have asked me like five years ago what the odds were of me writing a book on dog training, I would have been offended. I probably wouldn't have answered the question, and I would have walked away because it would be so impossible. But it's, yeah, it's amazing how things can change and I'm so grateful and really love what I do.
So it's, it all worked out for the best.
Lili Torre: That's so great to hear. And it's so funny and true, like [00:02:00] to think of our past selves, looking at the things we're doing now. I mean, I just don't think they would believe it.
And yeah, and you bring up such a great point. I would love to hear how you got into dog training and how this parallel career started for you.
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. I can't remember if we've talked about it or not, but I lost my mom in 2017...
Lili Torre: I'm so sorry.
Hannah Richter: Thank you. Um, Right before I lost her, she got me my first dog as an adult. I had a lot of dogs growing up, but this was like my first dog of my own. And I came back to the city after not being here for like six months or so...and actually you can maybe hear Rupert right now.
Rupert was the dog that my mom bought for me and he is a lovely dog, but he was in a pet store that had him in a really small glass box for six months or so before I had got him. And so he is a little bit high strung.
He has a decent amount [00:03:00] of fear and anxiety issues. And so he really taught me a lot about what owning a dog is like, what training a dog can be like, and that really started my journey of wanting to learn about dog training.
So then that led me to getting an apprenticeship with Andrea Arden dog training in the city. And that was a wild, wild kind of just chance that I got the apprenticeship. I emailed her out of the blue and just told her how much I admired her work. She's a pretty big celebrity in the dog training world. So I was, I was just like a shot in the dark and she wrote back and offered me an interview. And then I started my apprenticeship a few weeks later.
So that's how I really started learning about dog training.
Lili Torre: Wow. It's an amazing story. I mean, I, I love that this parallel career grew really organically for you out of something that you experienced in your own life, that interested you, that, you know, I think a lot of people would think [00:04:00] of as maybe... I don't know if hobby is the right word.... maybe it is...
Hannah Richter: I feel you on that. Yeah, absolutely.
Lili Torre: Yeah, that it's something that like, anyone can just be like, I want to train my dog, but then to be like, this is something I really love and enjoy doing. I want to learn more or about and help other people do is it's just such a cool way to have something grow so organically like that.
And then on top of that, the fact that the way you were able to make this a career for yourself was through reaching out, which we talk about a lot on this podcast and I had Carly Valancy on this podcast, who is the creator of The Reach Out party, which is all about reaching out to help improve your life in a variety of ways, but one of which can be your career.
Yeah, and I think it's so cool... you know, Carly really helps people kind of overcome the fear surrounding reaching out because it can be very vulnerable and very scary.
Hannah Richter: Totally.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And so I think it's so cool that you were like brave enough [00:05:00] to reach out to this, you know, superstar in the dog training community and just put yourself out there and look where it's gotten you. That's incredible!
Hannah Richter: I got so lucky and I'm so grateful for them really taking me under their wings at Andrea Arden dog training, because it's yeah, it's, it's especially scary when you're trying to go into a new field too. I feel like I had reached out a lot previously to like composers or directors, but I knew so much about theater that it felt like, all right, if they message me back, like, I know what I'm saying, but at first I was like, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing or what I'm going to learn. But please give me an opportunity to learn. And that was super vulnerable to me.
Lili Torre: Yeah, definitely. And that actually brings up another question I wanted to ask you about. I saw when I was doing a little bit of stalking before our call today that you are certified as a CPDT-KA?
Hannah Richter: Yes, so many letters. There are so [00:06:00] many letters in the dog training world in general, between like titling your dog and getting certificates as a trainer. There's there's a whole alphabet in there for sure.
Lili Torre: Tell me more about what that means and what that certification process was like.
Hannah Richter: Yes. So the CPDT is a professional organization for positive dog training. And that test is... I think it's like a hundred questions or so that's all about the theory behind positive dog training , what you would do in certain scenarios, how to handle cases, how to handle clients. And their motto is Lima, L I M A, which stands for Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive. And so they really try to use as little punishment or fear or force as possible in training, because we really can accomplish everything without using those things. It's just not as widely known.
Until the 90's, dog training was very, fear-based, [00:07:00] very punishment based, and they actually didn't even recommend that you start classes until six months because the techniques were so forceful that your dog wasn't old enough for it to be okay for their bodies, that it would be harmful for them.
And then positive dog training came along and we realized that we can just use treats and toys and other things that dogs like to guide them through space and to teach them behaviors without having to use force at all.
So I think that the certification for me was really important because I wanted to have a strong history of really knowing how positive dog training works so that I can then have that to back me up when I'm explaining things to clients.
And yeah, I think it's, it's a really lovely thing to just start to learn taking the CPDT-KA. There are other certifications... but the dog training world is also weird in the sense that there isn't a degree for it necessarily. And so the certifications are... they're [00:08:00] good, but there's also a lot of programs out there that don't necessarily propel you or get you anywhere, or won't give you anything for your resume.
So it's interesting just to see the differences in how things work and to be in a field that doesn't really have a strong like college program. If that makes sense.
Lili Torre: It does. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things where it's like it both, I think bolsters maybe that community, because there isn't that barrier of entry of like, you must have this degree, but I can also see how it leaves room for a wide variety of training programs have sort of varying degrees and varying efficacy?
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. Totally. And so I feel like a lot of times in lessons, people will ask, okay, what is your education? What's your background? And so it was really important to me to just have something legitimate behind my name.
And I just got certified to be an AKC [00:09:00] evaluator, which means that I can test dogs for the canine good citizen test or to be an AKC trick dog or for AKC star puppy program, which are all just different titles that people can get for their dogs.
So that's my, my latest weird letter to add next to my name.
Lili Torre: And then what do people do with those certifications for their dogs?
Hannah Richter: So the CGC is awesome. It's really just developing skills that are necessary for life with a dog in social environments and at home. So it focuses a lot on like polite greetings with other people, polite greetings with other dogs, polite entrances, getting pet by someone and not worrying about it, having a good sit/stay, having nice leash walking skills.
So it gives you a list of goals to work towards. And I think the certification doesn't necessarily get you anything other than feeling good that you completed this task with your dog. And I think it really can give [00:10:00] people the confidence they need to go out with their dog in public without feeling like they don't have the tools.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. Yes. It's been such an interesting journey for me, as many of TDQ's listeners know, I recently got a dog myself, which has been such a joy, my first dog ever in my whole life, which is so crazy when I was like two years old, we had a dog, but since then we never had a family dog growing up. I've never had one as an adult.
So this has been such a new experience for me. And so before we got her, I was like deep in the YouTube videos.
Hannah Richter: It is the craziest feeling right before you get a dog. I have two dogs now and my Aussie, I got last November, I guess now it's two Novembers ago, but anyhow I, it was right before I got her. I was on the internet 24/7 Googling new toys to order and finding different different pieces of advice. And I'm a dog [00:11:00] trainer. So I totally understand how that goes for sure.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And I don't know, I just, I really wanted to have a well-trained dog, that was so important to me. And I very much felt like I don't even know what I'm getting myself into. I don't know how to do any of these things. And luckily the, you know, dog trainers that I was finding online all definitely had that sort of positive dog training mentality.
And it's been such a funny experience learning about the theory of dog training and then actually implementing it into practice. I feel like has taught me so much about humans too, and like, yeah. And how to motivate people. And I think about my mom who is retired now, but was a school teacher for many years.
And how she always talked about how she preferred to acknowledge the well-behaved students, rather than admonishing the quote unquote poorly behaved students and bringing attention to what students were doing well so that [00:12:00] the other students knew what behavior to emulate rather than taking the time and energy to admonish students, which ultimately leaves the well-behaved students feeling ignored and neglected.
And so it's been so funny to sort of like see that play out in, in my dog and in dogs as well. That rewarding the good behavior is infinitely more effective than trying to admonish the behavior you don't want.
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. And I think it's cool for me to hear a people perspective on it actually, because I'm so used to thinking about it from dog perspective. So I liked listening to that just with your mom and teaching kids.
But it really, that's exactly right. And I think so often people either expect their dogs to come pre-programmed or they think that their dog should know something, and instead of trying to help their dog succeed and set them up for success, they go more towards reprimanding or some sort of negative [00:13:00] feedback. And it really just counteracts the purpose of it in the first place, it usually just makes the dog more fearful, it can shut them down, it can make them down the line aggressive.
And so it's, it's a really, really fascinating process to be able to get to watch over and over and over again. And the changes that I get to see in dogs are so heartwarming and yeah, it's really amazing what you can do when you start to encourage them rather than reprimand them.
They're really eager to learn and to want to engage with you in a way that works for you. So it's definitely about letting them know when things work, rather than letting them know when something doesn't work.
Lili Torre: Yes. I think it's such a great technique and I can definitely, you know, I was kind of surprised when I started researching all of this, like, learning about focusing on the positive, because I had a little bit more of that impression from the 90's of reprimanding, your dog and yeah. And you [00:14:00] have to like set the boundaries and tell them no and, you know, learn all these things. But at the same time, I, I also know with human nature, how much more effective it is to tell people what you do want rather than what you don't.
Like I always think there's like this classic, psychological example of, if you tell someone not to picture a red elephant, they have to picture the red elephant first in order to not do that.
Yeah. And so how ineffective that is rather than being like picture a blue elephant, and then you will ensure that they're not picturing a red elephant. And I just think that's such a great example, again, going back to like how it relates to humans, and so it works with dogs as well.
And you're so right they are eager to learn, they're eager to have those boundaries set, they're eager to work, I find.
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. But that being said, puppies are totally frustrating and they're hard work. And I think so many of their behaviors that are... their energy levels are so [00:15:00] high when they're puppies, they're super nippy when they're puppies, a lot of those things do get better, same with house training, as they get older.
And so I think it's tough when we have our puppies and we've been up every hour overnight, and then we wake up and then our puppy poops on the floor, and then they start tearing our socks apart, and then, you know, they do one more thing that really pushes you over the edge.
And I think in some ways it's human to respond in a way that, you know, like is a little bit more angry. I just don't think it's doing anything for the dog. And I think that's something that I try to make very clear for my clients is like, look, we're human, we are very, very verbal creatures. We communicate solely more or less- some with body language, but we do a lot of communicating verbally. Dogs really don't. They do most of their communicating through body language. So our sometimes verbal tendencies or impulses are fine, but they're just not communicating anything to the dog.
[00:16:00] So I think that's where the line is of like, what does this actually do? In some ways, I think other than scaring your dog, doesn't do much other than it... you got something out for yourself and that's cool, like whatever, but other than that, it really can make the biggest difference to focus on setting them up for success and really reinforcing the good habits.
I think where people get stuck a lot is that it takes so much more time to work in a positive way. And so when people get frustrated, they want there to desperately be some sort of magic solution or something that they can do in a negative way to fix the problem. But the long-term solution is actually going to pay off more, which is being patient and really trying to work through those moments.
We do give time-outs. So like taking your attention away from your dog, if they're nipping or if they're barking at you. But we don't go for any sort of "no," or "ah-ah," or any kind of verbal reprimanding. And so it's... [00:17:00] yeah, it's just a longer process, but it's way more effective.
But I think that's where people get caught up. A lot of the time is getting frustrated after a couple of days when the problem really needs a couple of weeks or even a month or so to really sort itself out.
Lili Torre: Yes. Two things that you brought up that I just want to highlight is that one: yes, definitely having a new puppy can be very frustrating.
Hannah Richter: Oh my god. The most.
Lili Torre: Yeah, my husband and I are exhausted. I am someone who like desperately needs sleep constantly. I prioritize, sleep over everything else usually...
Hannah Richter: I love sleep. I could sleep forever. I love it the most.
Lili Torre: It's my favorite thing in the whole world. And so the only creature on this earth who could disturb that and get away with it is my dog, Olive.
Hannah Richter: I love that. Your dog's name is Olive, too.
Lili Torre: It's such a great name. It suits her so perfectly. We love her.
But yeah, I mean, like she's a, she's literally the only creature on this earth I would wake up in the middle of the night for, but I, you know, I'm definitely [00:18:00] tired. I'm definitely exhausted. And there are moments where I'm like, if you nip at me one more time, I'm going to lose it.
But this goes to the other thing that you said, which is that in my opinion, one of the benefits of taking a more positive approach is that then the quote, unquote, punishment, if you will, can be something so neutral.
Like I don't have to yell at her. I don't have to like get mad at her. I can simply ignore her if she's doing behavior that I don't approve of and don't want to continue. So if she's nipping at me, if she's barking, whatever the case may be, all I have to do is not pay attention to her and eventually she calms down and starts acting in a way that I find appropriate and that I can reward.
But rather than having to be mean or yell or do anything that I'm not even really comfortable with. All I have to do is not pay attention. And that is so much more satisfying to me.
Hannah Richter: Totally. And I think you brought up a good point, which is taking the attention away. I think ignoring [00:19:00] can work, but I actually think we have to actively make the choice to take our attention elsewhere.
So like if the puppy nips me and we were playing with a toy, I'll drop the toy and then I'll walk away and maybe like go over to the kitchen counter and pretend like there's something really exciting over there. Or I'll pick up my phone for 10, 20 seconds and pretend to be engaged.
But I think really making a break between the problem behavior for a timeout, and then trying to redirect is really important rather than just trying to redirect immediately. What I mean by that is like, if your puppy nips you, let's say, rather than just handing them another toy to work on, try to give them that timeout. So like a pause of 10 or 20 seconds of really taking your attention away. Then try to go for the other toy. Otherwise the puppy is going to continue to nip you so that they get the toy. If that makes sense.
So adding that little pause in there, I think can be super helpful and really actively taking [00:20:00] your attention away rather than just pretending it's not happening.
Lili Torre: Yes. That's a great distinction. Absolutely. Picking up your phone, looking at your laptop, doing something across the room is it definitely communicates that clearly.
I love that. And I'm also curious at what point in your journey did you decide that you wanted to start writing books?
Hannah Richter: So it's been really interesting with me and my dog training career, because I feel like with theater, I was... I don't know, I'm trying to think of a good analogy. I don't know. I felt like I was treading in water a lot and really trying to push down doors that weren't open, and some of them occasionally would open and I would find success, but I felt like I was working my butt off to just get a door open.
In the dog training world, I kinda just feel like things started to happen to me and doors were opening randomly, and I found myself in just like new places. So I feel like with my book, that was [00:21:00] definitely the case, meaning I've always really wanted to work on tricks and since I started apprenticing and when I was learning and just training to be a dog trainer, I worked a ton on tricks with my own dogs and found them just to be an amazing way to really work your dog out mentally and physically and make it fun for you at the same time.
So I had written my bio for our website for our company. And I had put like, "loves to work on tricks" in there. And a company named Callisto reached out to me through our website. They emailed Andrea and asked for me. And they were like, "Hey, so we're an algorithm based publishing company, and we look for topics that people have Googled or Amazon searched for that there aren't a lot of books on." And I guess dog tricks was one of them.
And so they were looking for an expert in dog tricks to write a [00:22:00] book on dog tricks. And so I wrote them a sample and then they wrote me back with the contract, and that's how I started writing my first book.
But they've been really amazing. I'm also writing my second book with the same company and they write really, really well detailed outlines for you. And then you have to then fill it all in and write the book. But it's really helpful because they feel like if I were to just have started from scratch, I think I would have been extremely overwhelmed.
I've often found myself overwhelmed when writing, even when I've tried to write for like screen or if I have ever tried to just like free write or anything like that, I get really bad writer's block before I ever write anything, because I feel so overwhelmed by... I dunno... there's like, you can literally structure it any way you want and you could have it in any order you want.
And I think having that much choice is very overwhelming. So the fact that they gave me the structure made it so easy. But it's crazy, their process... [00:23:00] I have to write the book in six weeks and then we spend a month or so editing. So right now I am... I have like less than two weeks before my first draft is due, and work is super crazy too. So I'm trying to finish up my last two chapters today.
Lili Torre: Wow. Oh my gosh. I mean, first of all, that's such a great story of how that happened for you. And that's kind of a common theme I find on this podcast is that people when they start parallel careers tend to find that while in the theater industry and world, they were constantly fighting, fighting, fighting, trying to get something to happen for themselves.
And then in their parallel career, things just sort of happen organically and seemingly much more easily. And I think that's such an interesting phenomenon that seems to happen..
Hannah Richter: Yeah. I , my roommate who was also my best friend at Ithica is now a realtor and he's [00:24:00] had a very similar experience where he just kind of fell into the real estate world and now works for Tyler Whitman, who's one of the top realtors in the city.
So it's it's really interesting how things just kind of happen and something that we talk a lot about, me and my roommate, is how you have the choice to then accept those opportunities and take it on, even if it doesn't feel comfortable, or you can say no and then not know what would happen. And I think it really is at some point when you're starting something new about taking the chance, being vulnerable and just seeing how things go rather than being too worried about it.
And I'm pretty sure that theater is in everything. I think starting this week, I'm teaching like 10 classes a week or something like that. And every time I teach a little bit, I feel like I am onstage. It's not the same thing, but it is in some ways nice to just be able to, I don't know, guide people [00:25:00] through an experience, I guess is one of the closest parallels I think I, I find...
And just like relating with people. I think I have an easier time getting to know people and talk to people just because of my experience with theater.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. That, that was a question I was going to ask you is actually how you feel like your skills as a theater artist transfer. And I totally see that, like, yes, I see that you know, there is that semi performance element to teaching the classes. And I'm also sure, you know, it's that kind of go with the flow almost improv thing of like, you don't, you don't really know what you're going to get each class. Like every dog is different. Every... yeah, every dog owner is different and everybody wants different things for their dogs. So I think that being a theater artist allows you to kind of go with that flow and take things as they come in that way.
And I also wanted to highlight something else that you said earlier about writing the book- the books, I should say, but part of what [00:26:00] has helped you write these books is getting those outlines, which, you know, are in a sense constraints because I do very much believe that creativity thrives within constraints.
And I think that's what you were touching on that, you know, trying to write on your own without any sort of constraint or anything like that, it was too overwhelming, there was too much possibility you could do whatever you wanted. And that was much more overwhelming than having a few constraints, having a timeline, even if it is a fast and intimidating one, allowed you the opportunity to be more creative and get more of that writing flow.
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. And if I think about what the moments that made me the most anxious auditioning, if someone were to say to me, like, "Come in and sing a 16 bar cut for Beauty and the Beast for Belle." I'd be like, all right, cool, got it, no problem.
If someone were to ask me, come in and sing 16 bars, your best cut. I'd be like, Oh my God, I don't... [00:27:00] I would literally shut down because it felt so overwhelming to me. And I think that that idea in general is something I should think about more in my day to day life, that I really do function better when I have some sort of constraint or some sort of structure/boundary.
And I think as artists, part of the joy of being an artist, a lot of the time is not having those constraints in some ways, but I also think as artists, we need them. So I think it, yeah, it's an interesting topic, I feel like.
Lili Torre: Yeah. I mean, I think... I've heard this example used before, but it's much easier to play on a playground where there are slides and swing sets and monkey bars and all of that, than just an open field where there's nothing and you have to figure out how you're going to play
Yeah. I think it's such a great analogy,
Hannah Richter: It really is.
Lili Torre: for how creativity thrives.
Yeah, I love that that's been the case for you and that [00:28:00] writing these books and having that experience has helped you learn more about yourself as a artist and creative person. That's amazing.
I'd also love to hear a little bit more... so your second book that's coming out is called Clicker Training for Dogs and clicker training was something I definitely learned more about when I was doing some research before getting my own dog. And it's something that I think there's a lot of misconceptions about. So I'd love to hear a little bit more on your perspective.
Hannah Richter: Oh my God. I got so excited. Talk to me about the misconceptions, only because I've been writing all day. I'm like eager to chat about it.
Lili Torre: Yes. Add a chapter about this. Well I think, you know, myself personally, but I actually found that this is a widespread perception is that the clicker is a punishment. That it's a negative sound that you click at dogs to tell them not to do something or to tell them to do something.
I know, And well, I think it's in part because we, as humans find [00:29:00] most clicker sounds like, kind of annoying...
Hannah Richter: True. That's real.
The other part of that, that might play into it. Maybe not, maybe this is a very dog trainer perspective, but for like an E-collar or a shock collar, which is something that we try not to use slash don't use at all.
It's a remote, and when you use an E-collar or a shock collar, you do try to press it at the point. When your dog is doing something wrong, technically. And so I think maybe that's where there is some misconception. And people often will pick up a clicker and hold it like out like a remote to the dog. Like there's a magic, like...laser beam.
So I, I think that one of the biggest misconceptions that will maybe play into this is the clicker's only used when you're first teaching something when you're refining a behavior. So if you're like adding criteria or you're making it a longer duration, so like the sit, instead of being one second, you want the dog to hold it for five seconds, or if you're in a new location. [00:30:00] Other than that, you really don't use the clicker.
And so I think that's where people get stuck a lot is that they're going to need to have this thing so that they can let their dog know when they did the good or the bad thing or something like that. But really it's just a tool to help your dog understand the behavior in the first place and to help set them up for success.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And that the clicker in and of itself, isn't actually telling the dog to do anything. It in and of itself is not a command. It's a reaction.
Hannah Richter: A thousand percent. One of the best things that I read when I was doing all my research for my book was from Karen Pryor who really made clicker training, wide spread in dog training world , was that there's nothing special about the clicker. The clicker is literally just a sound to mark a moment in time. And that's all it's meant to do is communicate a thing has happened.
Something good is coming and... yeah, I think that it's, it's really interesting when we start to think about the clicker as a marker [00:31:00] sound, versus a cue word, because the clicker should never be used to get your dog's attention or to tell them to do something. It's really only used as feedback that what they did was something you liked. Some sort of reward is coming.
Lili Torre: Yeah. I love that. And I'm so glad that you're, you know, when you were talking about how the company that you work with, how they determine the topics that they want books written on. I'm sure that clicker training came up because it is something that people have mixed perceptions about, and there's a lot of confusion surrounding. So I'm so excited that you're writing a book about that.
Hannah Richter: Thank you.
Lili Torre: And part of the reason I was so excited to have you on not only because I think that your journey is so interesting and amazing, but I also know that a lot of people, like me, have gotten dogs in this time during COVID...
Hannah Richter: So many it's insane. I feel guilty because I talk to my artists friends who are out of work. And I honest to God couldn't imagine being busier. I am so [00:32:00] busy.
Lili Torre: I was going to say, I'm sure that's contributed to the number of classes you're teaching, the fact that they want the second book. Like it makes sense. And I mean, it's been a wonderful thing for a lot of people in so many ways, you know, not the least of which is all of these shelters that are like literally running out of dogs.
Hannah Richter: It's crazy. I had another classmate of mine from Ithica, wanted to adopt a dog and was reaching out to me asking if I knew of any one, because all of the rescues were impossible.
Lili Torre: Yeah, no, I mean, literally I'm from South Carolina, but my hometown is close to Savannah, Georgia, and I saw on Facebook that the animal shelter in Savannah, Georgia was literally a hundred percent out of dogs at one point. Like they had none.
Hannah Richter: Oh my God. That is amazing.
Lili Torre: Yes, and so, you know, my husband and I have both been like, wow, this has been the best possible time to get a dog, like we're both working from home. You know, especially I should clarify to get a puppy. We very much were like, wow, how do people do this in [00:33:00] non COVID times when they don't work from home? But I also have heard from a few people that there are some things that people need to be aware of when getting a dog in this time.
And I'm curious your thoughts on that, any advice and any cautions that you might recommend to people who want to get a dog right now?
Hannah Richter: Absolutely. I think one thing that's been a big topic in general, if not the biggest with COVID is working on alone time and preventing separation anxiety because we are home so much. So I think as soon as possible start practicing the shortest repetitions of alone time. So like five or 10 seconds, don't make it super long at first.
I think people want to see how long their dog can handle it. And so they start with like an hour or two, and then you've given your dog a pretty scary experience in their crate or pen or wherever their alone time space is, rather than trying to go for like five or 10 seconds where when you come back, they aren't so worked up and then they're able to kind of [00:34:00] reset and maybe try again.
I also would recommend trying to pair really delicious food toys or treats in the crate . A food toy is anything you can put treats inside of. A Kong is a really popular one. And you want to make it easy enough for your dog at first that it isn't so frustrating that they don't want to work on it.
So I usually recommend putting like a few pieces of kibble or a few treats and just let your dog knock out all of the treats the first time. And then that way, when they go back to it, they're willing to re-engage because it paid off.
And I think if we start to really put those food toys or put projects inside of their alone time space, that's a way to really change their association with it so that it isn't so scary, and it is a place that they're used to just going into for good stuff.
Lili Torre: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And that's a really good point about the Kong that I hadn't thought of that like yeah, those toys can be like kind of frustrating. It can be really hard.
Hannah Richter: And they're amazing. If your dog is willing to [00:35:00] work on it. Oh my gosh. Having like an hour of silence or even 20 minutes, whatever it is, is amazing. And so if we can get them to first feel successful, then we can get to that point where we have 30 minutes, an hour, whatever we need.
The other thing that I would say has come up a lot with COVID is figuring out how to have your dog be okay with you being home, but not paying attention to them.
Lili Torre: Yes, that is a great point.
Hannah Richter: It is so hard. My dogs learned very, very quickly that when I was, I started teaching on Zoom in March, when we were all in lockdown. And my dogs learned very quickly that if I had my computer open talking to someone, if they came up to me and tried to bug me, I would usually have like treats or some sort of food toy or something nearby, so I could be like, all right, shut up now, here's your thing. But then I realized after a couple of days that they were then training me to give them food toys for barking and whining.
[00:36:00] And I had no choice, but to give in because I can't stop my lessons to play with them. And so I had to then go back and spend time, really capturing nice, calm behavior in the crate while I'm teaching, and really trying to focus on rewarding silent moments. And now we're at a place where I can teach without them trying to bug me too much.
But I think that teaching your dog how to settle, even when you're home is one of the hardest things to work on at this point. Because normally people would just leave and the dog would sleep and then that's that. But when we're home all day, your dog is like, hello, please. I am here. I would like to play.
And so I think it's, it's good to try and figure out ways to tire out your dog. Before you start the workday, and not only physically, like not just going for a walk, but also mentally. So doing some training or trying to give them like a food puzzle or something to work, both their body and their mind before you're going to then [00:37:00] ask them to chill while you're home, or if you're leaving.
Lili Torre: Yes. That is such a good point because I've heard a lot more people talk about trying to preempt separation anxiety that could come as a result of us being home so much. But I haven't heard as many people refer to what you're talking about. And that's definitely something that I've struggled with is she can see me, she knows I'm here. She wants to play and I have to get work done. You know, what do I do?
And I'm really grateful that you shared your anecdote, because it's such a great reminder that like even a professional dog trainer sometimes... I don't wanna say makes mistakes, but like gets into a pattern that, like you said, allows your dogs to train you.
Hannah Richter: Our dogs are so good at patterns and why they're good at it, or like, I guess why the reason I said that they're good at it is that they pick up on them without us realizing it. Like a common one is like Rupert knows if I put on socks, I'm leaving. A lot of dogs pick up on cues like that, but without us meaning to train it. And so unless we're like very actively working against it, they [00:38:00] pick up on stuff.
My clients all the time, say to me like, "Oh my God, your dogs must be perfect." And I honestly... like they're dogs, you know what I mean? Like they, they know a lot. Rupert has way more issues than Jenga, but I love them both. They are both dogs at the same time, though.
And I think they will always keep me humble because they're dogs, and I'm always learning more about them. But that being said, I do have a lot of tools, and I've trained them to do a lot of things that help us live together and go through life together.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And I'm, I'm interested because, well actually, did you get both of them as puppies?
Hannah Richter: I did well, actually, yes, but Rupert, I got at six months, Jenga I got at eight weeks. And the difference of what happens in those four months developmentally is so huge.
They are discovering how they should interact with different dogs, with different people. They form their opinions on things in the [00:39:00] environment, smells, sounds. They really have fear imprint periods during that time, too. So it's, it's really important to socialize your puppy from eight to 24 weeks. But because Rupert didn't have that socialization, his interactions are just a little bit funky.
Like he's not reactive if he is off leash necessarily, but he just plays in a different way. He's never gotten into a dog fight or had anything severe happen. He's just not as clear with his body language as other dogs who I work with, and it's nice for me to have Jenga who came from one of the best breeders, really in the country for breeding mini Australian shepherds. And so the differences in Rupert and Jenga are fascinating to see in terms of just what she reacts to how she reacts to things, how quickly she learns.
Some of that's breed differences. Some of it I think, [00:40:00] is their socialization and what their experiences were. But with Jenga at the same time, when I got her, Aussies can be pretty fearful of people or other dogs. She's always been really, really happy to be around other dogs. People she's just a little more shy with. She does need a little bit more time to get to know someone.
And I feel like the time of COVID in her developmental phases was horrible because people just stopped coming over. And so for a lot of my clients as well, people coming to the apartment is absolutely insane. Like if the repairman were to come, the dog goes crazy.
Jenga has gotten to a much better place with people coming over, where she might bark once or twice, and then she chills out really quickly and it's been. Honestly, a pretty stressful process. It's not, not something that's fun, and I think something that a lot of dog trainers struggle with is imposter syndrome and this feeling of like, Oh my God, I'm a dog trainer, [00:41:00] why isn't my dog being, you know, that accepting of all the people coming into me.
Yeah. And that's something I struggle with a ton. And I think that most of my colleagues do, all- most dog trainers do in general, because at the end of the day, like I was saying, like our dogs are not people and they have tendencies and they have impulses and we have to figure out how to best manage them and set them best up for success so that we can also set ourselves up for success.
Lili Torre: Yes, a hundred percent. And thank you for sharing that because I know it can be vulnerable to admit that your dog's not perfect when you're a dog trainer, but I mean, it's just like, as singers, like no matter how much you take voice lessons, no matter how much you train, like sometimes your voice cracks, like it just, it happens.
Yeah. And there are so many outside variables that impact that, and the same is true with dogs.
And that kind of brings me to my last question for today, which is if someone [00:42:00] listening to this right now is thinking about getting a dog sometime soon, what would your biggest piece of advice to them be? Either in the vein of like whether or not they should get one or if they've already decided, is there anything that you recommend they do to prepare?
Hannah Richter: Yes, you should always get a dog. I do think that yeah, I'm, I'm very easy to convince on that one. But I think it is important to consider your schedule, of course, and to consider your schedule in what it might be in the next, you know, three to five years, your dog is a commitment, it's not just a quick thing. Your, you have your dog hopefully for, you know, 10-15 years or something like that.
So I think the biggest thing that I wish people would do is to do a little bit of research into breed, breeds and temperament. Because I think that there are a lot of differences in dogs and in genetics and in breeding that people don't [00:43:00] really think about.
There are dogs who are definitely better suited for city life than other dogs. There are dogs who are more prey driven who want to chase birds and squirrels more than other dogs. There are dogs who like Jenga, who are bred to literally herd sheep. And so I think when we do more research on the breed, we know better how to set them up for success, to train them, what you'll need in the house.
And I just think it's worth considering. I don't think it matters if you're rescuing or if you're going to a breeder, if you're going to a breeder, do your research for sure. But I, I would just say, take into consideration how much time you really have for that breed. And if it's a breed that requires a ton of exercise, then you need to have a plan for how you're going to tire the dog out, for sure.
Lili Torre: Yes, absolutely. I mean, for us, you know, we knew we live in an apartment. We live in a city. We probably will for at least the next five years [00:44:00] plus. And so a French bulldog was going to be a really great fit, both for the space that we have and the amount of exercise we're going to be able to give her.
I hope that people will take your words into consideration. Cause I think it's easy to fall in love with a breed and then struggle to come to terms with the fact that they are not, that their inherent tendencies are not in alignment with your lifestyle.
Hannah Richter: I feel like corgis are, a really big one for that. I love corgis, but they're a herding breed and I think people get them and expect them to be like, totally like mush on the couch. And they are so energetic and they really are so intelligent, they need so much work. And so I, I absolutely agree with what you just said.
Lili Torre: Well Hannah, thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me today. This was so incredibly informative and interesting.
And I'm just so amazed to see how relatively quickly, your parallel career has developed and grown to a place where you're thriving so much and you're writing books. Like [00:45:00] that's just so cool. It will definitely link your books in the show notes. And I am just so glad we had this chat today.
Hannah Richter: Thank you so much. It's so, so lovely to get to talk to you. It's always nice to just have an outlet and get to share some of my thoughts on training with other people to hopefully help them out with their own pups.
Lili Torre: Oh, I'm sure it will. Thank you.
Hannah Richter: Absolutely.
Lili Torre: There's so much to take from Hannah's story. First of all, she reminded us the power of reaching out. And she reminded us the magic of following what interests you and daring to say yes to scary new opportunities.
There's definitely something to the fact that so many of us feel like we're fighting an uphill battle in our theatrical careers, and sail much smoother waters in other ventures. Which certainly isn't to say that the uphill theatrical climb isn't worth it, but sometimes it's okay to want to go with the flow.
For those of you interested in learning more about dog training, I'm linking Hannah's book in the show notes, and I'll keep you posted [00:46:00] about the release of her second book on Instagram, so make sure you're following @thedreadedquestion. And if you know someone who got themselves a COVID dog, I hope you'll consider sharing this episode with them.
As always, I'm so grateful to you for listening. I'm Lili Torre and this has been The Dreaded Question.