Lili talks with Nicole Vande Zande, actor and creator of Rewired Healing. They discuss Nicole's career and spiritual journeys, as well as how this time has encouraged her to change the way she was going about her parallel career.
TDQ Holiday Gift Guide!
Rewired Healing's website
Rewired Healing's Patreon
Rewired Healing's instagram: @rewiredhealing
Nicole's guided meditations on Insight Timer
Nicole's website
Nicole's instagram: @nicoleannvz
The Biz of Show with Melissa Robinette
Crystal Bible by Judy Hall
Outrageous Openness: Letting the Divine Take the Lead by Tosha Silver
The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron
True Sex and Wild Love Podcast
Crystal Muse by Heather Askinosie and Timmi Jandro
TDQ’s Website
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TDQ Nicole Vande Zande
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello, and welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre, and today we're welcoming Nicole Vande Zande.
I met Nicole years ago through Melissa Robinette's, Biz of Show, and I've been watching her journey from afar as she's delved into different areas of the performing world, as well as what we're chatting about today, her parallel career, Rewired Healing. Through Rewired Healing, Nicole offers Reiki, tarot readings, custom crystals, and she also offers guided meditations on Insight Timer.
On today's episode, we discuss her career and spiritual journeys as well as how this time has encouraged her to change the way she was going about her parallel career.
You can also find Rewired Healing on the TDQ Holiday Gift Guide, which I'll be linking in the show notes, if you haven't had a chance to check it out yet.
So without further ado, let's find out what Nicole Vande Zande is up to.
So, [00:01:00] Nicole Vande Zande, what are you up to?
Nicole Vande Zande: Oh, so much right now. I feel like I'm in process. I mean, I'm in process of really finding a structure to thrive in as someone who is very watery and by watery I'm in reference to feeling-based and emotionally-based and energetically-based human, finding the structure that I thrive in without having a system that is punishment-oriented or should-based.
Yeah, really finding how I thrive in this time. I think we're given a really interesting set of circumstances right now where we don't feel like we have a lot of control, but we actually have so many options with where we're at. Especially if you are an artist, we are scrappy [00:02:00] and problem-solving based. So it's almost like overwhelming. So that's where that structure, is coming in.
So that is where I'm at right now.
Lili Torre: That's so interesting. I... you know, we were just talking about before we started recording today that I am also, I'm a water sign. I'm a very watery person. And I guess I've never really thought about the fact that that presents sort of an interesting relationship with structures and confinement and that it's hard to, I'm sure it's hard for everyone to an extent anyway, to find the boundaries that you can put up for yourself that will help you thrive without constraining and constricting you.
And it almost feels like right now, especially for people who are unemployed or don't have their typical routine, there's almost too much freedom to create structure. [00:03:00] And so you can either have too much structure or not enough right now. And I think that that can feel really hard to balance.
Nicole Vande Zande: Absolutely. And it, I think one of the hardest things or places people get stuck is that it doesn't look the same for everyone. Something that I've learned working with people's energy and getting the, like I'm honored to tap into different people's energy. And if you break it down like into the elements of like astrology, but also like when you read the chakras, the elements show up.
So there might be someone who, I mean, I have a lot of water, but I have a lot of earth as well. So for me to thrive, my boundary work was really important to me, and this is boundary work on a spiritual level, but also, in a very psychological, scientific base. Because they are not separate because it's a spiritual practice doesn't mean that it's separate from science. It's actually [00:04:00] incredibly supported by science. But I realized that my watery aspects thrived once I got these like moats in my, in my body, in my system.
So it's getting that place in yourself to really dive in and figure out what that balance looks like for you. And sometimes that means going to a healer. Sometimes it means going to a therapist, and sometimes it's just sitting with yourself and being like, what feels good?
What level of discipline feels good because I know some people who are like... they thrive on just running and running and running and running and they're like, I feel so good. And I'm like, I'm exhausted, like talking to you about this, but like, I'm so glad you found your joy. But yeah, it's, it's just you, everyone is so different.
and I know that's like a basic concept, but we forget it a lot. And it's, it's good to remember like, to be reminded of that.
Lili Torre: Yeah, [00:05:00] definitely. I mean, I think it's so easy to compare yourself to other people. I was actually thinking about this earlier. I think especially right now, because so often the only connection we're having with other people is through social media, whereas before it was like, you would see people in person and see...you know, have actual conversations with them one-on-one, and then also see their social media.
But now it's like, you only see their social media and that's really the only inkling you have of how they're doing and what they're doing. And I think it makes it so much easier to compare yourself to other people right now, based on how it seems other people are doing on social media, which is always a problem.
But I definitely think that it's amplified right now.
Nicole Vande Zande: I totally agree. It's an incredibly draining thing. Ideally when we connect with people and we're reaching out for that connection that we thrive [00:06:00] on, we would be energetically, you know flourishing after those, interactions, but because they are on social media, through devices, through electronics, it can be incredibly draining.
And, going back to boundaries, I know it's really difficult to be like, I'm putting my phone down, but in my own therapy when, isolation when those things were really prevalent when we were told to stay home and like be safe, in therapy, my therapist was like, have phone jail. Set, like, just get curious about it and turn your phone off for an hour and see how you feel.
And of course it felt so much better. And, and the intention was there. Like our intentions can really shift things and, getting into like a more magical view of that is my view of magic is intention plus energy. So if you are spewing your energy unintentionally, you're casting spells in all the things you [00:07:00] don't want.
So if you bring intention to the things that you're doing, cause you're going to expel energy throughout the day, whether it be like making your coffee in the morning, or looking at your phone, the moment you pick up your phone, you're expelling energy. If you just shift the intention behind it, it could cast a much different spell.
And why not? Like why not use every moment, and make every moment like a really beautiful ritual to be supportive of yourself.
Lili Torre: That's so interesting. Intention plus energy is magic.
I mean, especially when it comes to your phone, I do think there's, there's so much mindless scrolling and so much unintentional intake there and input. And I think that that's really amazing advice. And you started to touch on this with the idea of this phone jail, but I'm curious what other boundaries you have created for your watery self?
[00:08:00] Nicole Vande Zande: Oh, my goodness. So I will say, well, these, with the parameter of like, I do not do this perfectly. The days that I do this, I feel really good, but that doesn't mean that there aren't days where it just kind of get thrown and skewed and I just kind of float along and move forward gently as possible.
When it comes to my boundaries, I have pretty large boundaries for availability. If I do tarot readings for myself, I keep that really sacred. So I turn off any electronics. I have specific crystals with it. It's kind of going back to the whole idea of making things rituals. So if I do choose to have a daily practice, and by daily practice, I mean something that is habitual, whether it's intentional or not, I try to bring intention to it.
So I really enjoy coffee. I know that it's not like the best thing for you, especially if you like consuming in [00:09:00] high quantities, it's actually really not great for anxiety. And I do also, have anxiety in my life and that is a part of myself that I carry and I acknowledge gently. And one of the things that I know that I interact with is I enjoy coffee.
So having that balance whenever I make my coffee, I do have boundaries on it. I have it like, well, if I'm going to engage in this, this is the time period I can do it. I have to infuse it. I like, I use a "have to" language. I know that that's like, I don't like using "shoulds" or "have to", but I have to choose to do it with a beautiful intention.
So when I'm stirring it, like I say, like, "This is going to fill me up. It's going to reach my root chakra and ground me." And I kind of consent to whatever anxiety comes to that.
So choosing to do everything with intention is where the boundaries come up. So it's more situational than hard, fast rules. I kind of just have these, ideas and systems around what I love and what I do and what is [00:10:00] supportive. And if you zoom in on an area of my life, then yeah, you'll get more of that. And it's my biggest system is that things are allowed to shift every day.
And that's been super supportive as a watery human, because then you're not setting yourself up to fail because I also carry the, my upbringing was incredibly religious. And so, having the "shoulds" or the criteria of this is what makes you good or feel good. It's easy to pop into the like, "Oh, I failed today." Instead of being like, wow, look how funny the day ended up being. Holding it differently in that perspective can really shift your internal world.
That was a very long, watery answer to what you asked me.
Lili Torre: No, I love it, it went in so many. It flowed in so many beautiful directions.
Nicole Vande Zande: Yeah.
Lili Torre: There's so much that I'm interested in that... you started to touch on this, but I'd love to [00:11:00] just ask you to go into it a little bit more, about the differences between a ritual and a habit.
Nicole Vande Zande: Ooh. Yeah, I think habits. Habit to me is something that we do that is almost muscle memory, that we are not fully engaged in. It might've started out as something really mindful and special and beautiful, but it has become a habit.
I don't think these are bad things. I think habit does have a, a stigma to it where it's like, well, smoking's a bad habit, or like, drinking coffee, or like looking at your phone before bed. Like these are bad habits, but we have good habits too.
I think a ritual is like my magical spin on it to make everything held in a more curious, playful way. My life shifted massively, massively when I started to view my life from a lens of pleasure. Pleasure and fun and [00:12:00] curiosity, not to say that I don't take things seriously or have excellence to what I do.
Because the pleasure spectrum, and this is very based in, if anyone is interested in this specifically, it's based in a lot of Taoist beliefs. I first started studying the, uh, tantra, but, the actual tantra religion, I don't want to follow a religion. But the Taoist belief of like pleasure being the base energy that we can transmute into whatever, is like what shifted and, and empowered me as a female, empowered me as this creative force and spiritual healer. Like it shifted everything for me.
So when I go about things in that way, it shifts how I look at how our culture and society has structured things, because we do live in a, and I'm saying this in a not gendered way, even though it is gendered as well, our society is very [00:13:00] masculine based.
I know Korra has been on your podcast before, and she'd probably talked about the male cycle versus the female cycle. So we are in a male cycle of like the 24 hour day. So everything is structured around more masculine things. And it's not a bad thing, we all have masculinity and femininity, however you might define it. It is the energy that we carry both, and all genders, and, and non identifying genders as well, like, we all carry this energy. But it is just very, masculine and structured. And there isn't a lot of yin and there isn't a lot of play and softness and mystery and excitement and just like build up.
And so for me, like, pushing into that pleasure and like just kind of letting that wild, wild femininity flow, it shifted how I looked at things like habits and schedules, and discipline and all that. But even in how I'm saying it, I'm like, argh...
But these aren't [00:14:00] bad things. They aren't bad things. They've just been so out of balance for so long that it's like we got to swing the other way to balance it out and then live in harmony within ourselves and then within society.
But I think it's just the way that I've shifted my perspective to be most supportive to myself, to, to use a language and ideas that energetically feel fun and light and curious and playful, because that's how I best live. And I think a lot of people could benefit from that and not just that type of language specifically, but, learning what language and what ideas really help you to thrive out of that place.
Lili Torre: Yes. Oh, I love that so much. And I'm so glad that you started to touch on where your life has taken you and the things that you've learned. And I'm just so excited to hear more about your journey to [00:15:00] starting Rewired.
Nicole Vande Zande: Oh, it's such an interesting story and I feel I could never do it justice by trying to explain it, but I will do my darndest.
So I mentioned earlier, I grew up in a very religious household. I love my parents so much, they've gifted me so much. But I grew up in Iowa, very small town, very religious, but in a very dogmatic, way that made me shrink.
That made me, that really embedded in my system, this suppression, especially around sexuality and being right and wrong. And, I believed it. I was... I don't want to say brainwashed, but these systems were so embedded in my body that, it wasn't until I moved to New York, that I really started to see the disparities of what I believe to be truth and what my body like had retained.
So in college before I ever like stepped away from Christianity and, and, that specific religion in general, I like to say that crystals [00:16:00] found me. So crystals and, and, stones and minerals were the first gate into what I did about 10 years ago now.
I had always been making jewelry. I started making jewelry when I was in second grade. It was something that I would do, yeah. Right? So, so sweet. Like I think of little baby, Nicole. I remember when I would get upset, my mom would be like, go to your room and make some jewelry. And I would just like string beads all day long.
Like just like a little, little gremlin, like stringing beads in my bedroom, and look at me now! But that's where it started. And then in college, I was in Minneapolis and it was much more of a more open, definitely not like the melting pot and beautiful world that is New York City, but it was the most city I'd ever been to growing up in Iowa.
And I went to this store at the Mall of America and there were crystals, raw crystals there, and I fell in love with them. I remember the first strand of crystals I [00:17:00] bought was an Aqua Marine, this like beautiful raw piece, and then a bunch of amethyst pieces and a bunch of like crystal points. And I knew nothing about them.
I just fell in love with how they looked and all this jewelry that I found myself drawn to. I was like, this is way too expensive. I need to start making it. But then I realized that there was a belief system behind it, and I didn't want to appropriate it. I didn't want to like tout these beliefs when I didn't know them or believe them at the time.
And then, I started to study and I bought a couple of books and I was like, well, I don't, I don't believe these things, but like, I'm going to respect their beliefs, but I totally like, I, it brought me so much joy and excitement to know like that amethyst was good for balancing the mind that you could put it under your pillow and have a beautiful night's rest that like, if you did that longterm, if you had any mental issues or things that you struggled with, it helps to balance it out.
Like I loved knowing these things. I also loved that when I went randomly into public [00:18:00] areas, if I saw someone wearing a stone, I would ask them about it. And if they didn't know anything, I'd be like, well, you know, I don't know if you believe this, but like a Sunstone is actually a really beautiful stone for your solar plexus, and it can really help you to be positive and take in like, the beauty that is life.
And I always saw how it shifted their worlds. And that meant the world to me, because I was like, wow, like I worst case scenario. And I say this to everyone. I meet even now that I say worst case scenario, none of this is true, and I am surrounded by beautiful stones. And that's fine, but I've also seen them change people's lives.
So moving forward from there, I held it very lightly. And then about a year and a half ago... I got my Reiki practitioner license, so I got... it's a healing, a type of energy healing. I got my license like over a year ago. And then I was gifted my first tarot deck about a year ago as well. And that was when I [00:19:00] really stepped away from believing God as a male figure and let God be a lot more in my life. I'm definitely not looking down on people who have a religion. it was just something that I didn't get to choose growing up, and this is what I choose.
But then from there, both, my things were separate. I was making jewelry custom based and kind of just like being playful and selling things over the past, like five or so years, it's been? But also doing Reiki and like I was doing tarot in play, like not really being like, "Yeah, I do tarot readings. I'm a tarot reader."
But it wasn't the Corona virus really made me go, why aren't you doing this? Like mesh them together. You are a healer. But the things that I have really enjoyed the most, is seeing who comes to me and what they do with the gifts that I share with them.
Because everyone is a little bit different [00:20:00] and most clients end up having multiple things that they use or develop. I've had multiple people come to me that they are in process of like really learning what they want spiritually and what their own boundaries and own structures and magic is in their life. Where they're like, "I know I'm different. I know I have abilities and gifts." Even if they don't like, even if you're like, "Well, I don't know, I can't do any of that stuff." It doesn't matter. It's still in you, you have intuition, you have these, these gifts.
It's just, again, living in a more systematic, structured society that the Western world has, they've kind of been pushed aside. But everyone has intuition. Everyone has that and they can practice it. There are things you can do to practice your intuition. There are things you can do to tap into crazy things that people are like, "How would you ever get that?" Like telepathy and pre cognition and all of these things, these are [00:21:00] not bizarre concepts. They have just been kind of stigmatized to be like, woo woo or weird or whatever.
But when you start to interact with them, it's like, "Oh, no, like I'm the powerful one." Like the cards and the crystals and the energy healing, those are just modalities and things that we can use to thrive and explore in a very similar way.
So yeah, that's kind of been a, it's been a very integrated journey with all of this stuff and it's growing every day. It's growing cause I, I just, I love this stuff and it's like, everyone I meet and everyone I work with teaches me something new, but like... so kind of going back into like where I'm moving with this, it's like I'm doing Rewired Healing. I'm also, I just started doing guided meditations that I've written, that are based in crystals.
So like what I get off the crystal. Yeah. It's been really fun. So it's like fun for me. But then also I started to mentor someone. I, one of my clients who came to [00:22:00] me for Reiki and whatnot a while ago, I started to, mentor them through learning how to read tarot.
So those types of things. I also do like space clearing, One of the things that it's been really good during, this COVID season we are having, is space clearing is incredibly important and a lot of people have asked for help with that because we're in our apartments all day long, or we're living with roommates and it's just a lot of built up energy.
So all these different things and I've gotten into feng shui, and like the Taoist stuff and the tantra, it's just ever growing, and it's exciting and fun. So who knows where it'll go next?
I'm sure I'll get into like some type of like pleasure practice something. I think that after, and as we adjust in the world, moving forward, there's going to be a lot of healing needed, but I also think there'll be a lot of, pleasure needed.
So I as someone who like loves that, I'm definitely about helping people find that in their [00:23:00] lives.
Lili Torre: That's amazing. And I think that, that sounds like such an incredible journey for you. And I would love to hear a little bit more about where your work, your life, your career as an artist links in to this, and how that has helped you get to where you are with Rewired Healing.
Nicole Vande Zande: Yeah. I mean, I've always been adjacent. I've always been an artist. I think that's also something that's innate in everyone. I moved to New York. Well, I mean, from a young age, I was like, "No, I'm going to be a musical theater person." I saw Wicked when I was in seventh grade and I was like, Glinda, you are everything. Even though like, your girl can't sing that soprano anyways, she tries.
But that was like the driving force behind... that was like the energy that brought me to New York. That was the energy that really drove me in passion to get me here [00:24:00] and the stream of energy that I still tap into to know when something is empowered and strong.
There's nothing like singing on stage. There is nothing like dancing in front of an audience. There's nothing like performing. And for me, in a very similar way to my spiritual work, I've had a very interesting background.
So I, I came to New York, did musical theater. I still find myself adjacent to it. I'm, I'm still in class. I take this really lovely masterclass every Tuesday night, a la zoom. It's awesome. Straight acting like and that's been amazing. But before I was much more theater driven, and then I actually did burlesque for about two years. I kind of fell into it. I took a class and then I kept getting hired professionally. And then I had my own show for a while and then COVID hit.
And then it was like, as healing and as beautiful as the burlesque world was for me. And for a lot of people and it expanded my world, [00:25:00] especially around pleasure and sexuality and empowerment as a femme and queer human, it showed me that I didn't want to do that anymore. And that it wasn't fulfilling and that it wasn't what I wanted to do. And it showed me where I was still fearful and holding back.
But I keep coming back to it as well. And I, I feel like my spirituality work as well as my, my artist work, they feed each other. I wouldn't be me if I didn't have parts of both at all times. I am not just an artist and I'm not just a healer. I'm a healer artist. I'm an artist healer. And I, I think they're so integrated and beautiful and, one of the reasons why artists are so beautiful is because they have all of those other things that make them up.
And I realized, you know, I don't have to compartmentalize myself to be more hireable. And it wasn't really something that sunk in until I got the time to really sit with myself and be like, "Who am [00:26:00] I? Who am I really?" Which like we got a lot of, we still have a lot of time to do that.
But, that was something that I really got confronted with. And I got really uncomfortable at times. And in the spiritual world, the term "shadow work" is thrown around a lot. And shadow work is the opposite. So if there's a yin yang balance, there is the shadow work and the light work. So the light work is like the things that we're like, "I love this about myself," the things that are empowering and beautiful and like, "Oh, I want to show off that part of myself all day." But because light and dark both exist in this world, we have the shadow work, so the things that really hurt us, the things that we think are ugly about ourselves, and no one can tell us otherwise.
Spending time with those parts really showed me that I was compartmentalizing myself in the theater world specifically. Because in the spiritual world, I was like, "Nah, like. It's all beautiful. It's all like usable. It's all like gets me deeper into it," but I was like, "But not theater, like they can't [00:27:00] see that."
But I realized it was about like who I wanted to work with. I wanted to be much more specific about the people. Cause if the people don't... If they don't realize that I am a whole artist, then I probably shouldn't work with them. But I didn't realize that was under my control.
Lili Torre: Definitely.
I mean, I think, I think that's one of the many powers of the parallel career, or honestly, just even having other things in your life, remind you that you're a full human with other interests, other skills, other talents. And you know, specifically with a parallel career, it gives you that freedom and power to feel like I don't have to be desperate for work.
I don't have to be, you know, I don't have to say yes to everything. I don't have to audition for everything. I don't have to work with people who don't understand me because I have something else that supports and fulfills me. And it [00:28:00] sounds like that is very much what you have found for yourself. And you've kind of alluded to this a little bit, that this time during the pandemic has really served as a time of deep reflection for yourself.
You know, you said that during this time you had the realization that you needed to bring together, you know, your Reiki healing and your crystal work and your tarot readings. As you know, things that you offer professionally and that this was all, you know, living under that one Rewired Healing umbrella.
And I'm curious what you think it is, and I know it's, this is kind of asking a lot of self awareness in the moment, but what you think it is about this time that has triggered that for you.
Nicole Vande Zande: I think it's a lot of different things. So I also spoke that like leading up to this time, I had really done a lot of my shadow work. But I think the biggest [00:29:00] thing, was being confronted with the biggest mirror. Which, when all of this happened, we were stripped of our gigs. We were stripped of our work, of our money, and our income.
I was not on unemployment. I couldn't get it for the life of me. So I was really scared. I had some roommate situation where she was like, "I'm not coming back to the city and I'm not going to pay my rent." So just all of the like biggest fears of the time, also fearing being away from my family or them passing away.
My dad is a doctor. So, being scared that he was going to pass away before I ever got to see him. I did lose a grandma during this time. So just all of these things that. I identified with, as a human that I labeled myself were completely stripped away from me.
As I know, they were for a lot of people. And just being in New York as an empathic human, [00:30:00] I have a strong ability to tap into the collective energy as a lot of people do. But I felt it from the beginning of March. So in things right before things started to shut down, I, I felt that dread in that stuff coming along.
And the biggest shift, I think was, I couldn't outrun making a decision. I've been doing a lot of reflecting on this actually on the last couple of days, because I started to feel, some guilt, which I don't, I don't tend to feel as much anymore. I've kind of rid myself of a lot of guilt, but I started to feel this guilt that I was like, "Why didn't I do these things so long ago? Why didn't I make choices? Why did I just like let things happen to me when I have power and ability?"
But it wasn't until the things that I had relied on to make the decisions for me, whether that was like getting gigs or like the companies I was working for. If they had a gig, I'd be like, well, that's my life this month.
Like instead of being like, no I'm in charge [00:31:00] and even in my, like, especially in my parallel career being like, "Nope, I'm good enough." I think the biggest shift was, "No, I am qualified and I trust myself." But I will say, those things did not happen until I sat and cried and hated myself, you know? So like those things did not happen in a genuine way until I was like at my end. And really honest with the things going on and especially, especially, especially with the fears that were driving my life.
And not to say those things ever go away. Um, they come up at random times. They pop in like a really, annoying family figure they pop in and it's just, you learn how you, you learn that they're not you. And how to interact with them in that way. In a very gentle way, at least like for me, that's what works and that's what, I need as a human.
But yeah, I'd say that's the biggest shift. [00:32:00] I just stopped running away. I stopped running away and making, excuse not to say making excuses because I was not aware, so I don't want to put that on myself that I was making excuses. It's just, the structures were stripped away. And what I was left with was, literally just myself and I wanted to be happy. I wanted to love that person. And I wanted to love where I was at, even if the world felt like it was falling apart.
And yeah, that's also when I realized, like "What can I gift the world?" And without, and at the same time, feed myself, both physically and spiritually, you know, so, and that's, what's happened.
And the week that I decided to be like, "Hey, I'm offering Reiki sessions." Cause you can do them remotely, they're energetic based. So yes, it's wonderful and amazing to do in person, but this is all these things were remotely available. And there were ways to connect with people and serve people, and like [00:33:00] feed people in that way.
And the week that I started to offer it, I got like four or five a week. And, people would always come back. Like you don't need it every, you don't need it that often, unless you're in a really high stress scenario, but these people would come back every month or like ask for other services. And I saw it how it was serving and helping during this time. And there are just certain things that I just like want to blast and help people with.
Lili Torre: I think that's beautiful. I love that. And I am so grateful to you for sharing that because I think a lot of people can relate to what you just shared. This sort of idea that, you know, I think a lot of people are feeling that they've had every identity sort of stripped away right now.
Even what you shared about obviously being an actor or an artist, you know, so many people feel. A, that the reason they get to [00:34:00] identify that way is because they are employed as an artist, which first of all, we need to...
Nicole Vande Zande: Call bullshit on that?
Lili Torre: Exactly. Little bullshit there. Different definitions of what it means to be an artist. I think on top of that, so many people, hold so tightly to identifying as an artist. And if I can't call myself an actor, then you know, what am I? And who am I? And I think that right now, a lot of people are having to face that for themselves. And that's, that's difficult. Like you said, you know, you, you had to really turn into that fear.
You had to confront a lot of ugly, difficult, hard things to face, but you know, if you don't do it, you can't move forward. And I think what you said was, you know, "I just decided that I wanted to be happy." And I think getting to that place where you're just like, whatever it is ever, I [00:35:00] have to figure out to get to that place where I can make myself happy without the labels of artist, or you know, partner, or daughter, or all of the other things that you were feeling had been stripped away from you, and just getting to the core of who you are on your own without these identifiers. I mean, what a gift!
Nicole Vande Zande: Yeah. I, and I think going off of what you just said, I think, one of the biggest gifts you can give yourself is to realize that yes, those labels have power. They had power, but they were all made up. So why not make up your own? Like, there's a mantra that I like to use that are like, that, that really empowers me and makes me feel free.
It's like, I make the rules, like I'm in charge, who's in charge here. Like just give yourself a little pep talk and like, I've seen a lot of people within my circle and, and adjacent to [00:36:00] my circle in the musical theater world as actors really, it's such a heavy thing that they're carrying.
It's like they're carrying the weight of the industry on top of them. When it's like, I want to remind them that that's not your job. Like it is your job, if you choose it to be, to find your artwork, to find your stream in your flow, in your play during this time. But it is not your job to uphold the industry.
It is going to change and the lighter you hold it. Oh my God, the less pressure you're going to put on yourself. And it's not giving up if you don't identify as an actor right now, I kind of had to deal with that, identity shift when I started doing burlesque. Cause I was just so angry at the musical theater industry for not understanding me, for like what I thought it was making me do. Even though these were choices I made, making myself feel smaller or whatever.
So I got to, I had the gift [00:37:00] to like experience this when the world wasn't being taken away from me. But I am seeing this happened to people in real time now and it, I, my heart goes out to them. And, I think in the same way that the, the pleasure and the empowerment I found in those areas, I think that's a good practice and things for artists too, to help shift where they are right now.
Cause you don't have to give up being an artist or an actor right now and you don't have to take classes or do any of that to stay an artist. It's all about what you believe in what your perspective is, so working with what you believe.
Lili Torre: Yes. And you know, sometimes the hard part of that can be that you have to be clear on what you believe.
Nicole Vande Zande: Oh yeah.
Lili Torre: I, yeah, I think it's like, it's a lot harder to clarify for yourself what these things mean than it is to just adopt what someone else has told you it means.
Nicole Vande Zande: Cause it can be uncomfortable and you, you actually have to go, "Oh wow. Wait, I don't [00:38:00] actually believe that. Oh shit. Where'd that come from?" Like, and it can get, it can get deep and it can get intense, but it's also like, roll up your sleeves and, and it doesn't have to be overnight. I think it's a little scary if you try and do it overnight, but just starting to have an active dialogue with that part of yourself is going to shift everything, intentionally or not.
So, yeah, that is, that is definitely part of it sitting with it and being like, "Okay, what do I want? And what do I believe?"
Lili Torre: Right. And I mean, just from our conversation today, it seems like that is something that you, I don't know if I can really say that you're good at, because it's such a hard thing to do, but it's something that you seem to be willing and able to do in pretty big ways. I mean, you shared with us that you were brought up with, very strong religious background and that you allowed yourself to sort of question and shift and change [00:39:00] that.
And that when you first learned about crystals, you were like, "I don't know if I really believe in this stuff, but I guess I'm just going to like figure it out." And eventually, you know, that opened up a whole other world to you. And then, you know, even your belief in what it means to be a musical theater actor and what your place would be in that industry, or burlesque even that, you know, that presented itself to you, and then you started to question that belief about being part of your life. I just think that, you know, to bring things full circle, you seem to go about these major elements of your life in a very watery way, I guess, which makes you sound wishy-washy which is not what I mean...
Nicole Vande Zande: No I understand.
Lili Torre: But you're willing to go with the flow and question. And I think that that's amazing.
Nicole Vande Zande: Thank you for saying that, that is incredibly affirming. And it's nice to hear that from an outside perspective, because I think we tend to be really hard on ourselves where like, I could look back on that and be [00:40:00] like, "Wow, you were so watery and you couldn't stick to one thing," but the way that you present it, you're like, "Oh no, the way you flowed and examined, that is accurate."
I think the way I was brought up, taught me that is that, I am in charge, and it is important to ask questions, and I can only benefit from those things. And a lot of the reason we don't ask questions or we stay in these dogmatic beliefs or these systems that aren't serving us anymore is because we're fearful.
And what I realized through some really beautiful teachers, as well as some beautiful books is that whatever is on the other side of fear is usually what you need. So I've gotten really good at sitting with fear and, and crying if I need to, and just like getting into the uncomfortable, emotions and examining them.
But I definitely didn't do it alone. The people I surround myself with even my parents, like with their beliefs, they're, they're incredibly supportive of [00:41:00] emotions. and, and letting them run course and not run your life, but like to examine them as indicators and, and helpful guides.
And, and therapy. Hi, therapy is lovely. Getting to talk to someone and have an equal energy exchange to talk about your emotions and then getting to set them aside. It's all just incredibly supportive and, it's a practice. It really is. It's just like how you, if you journal every day, that's a practice. Like, it's something that you can get into your body, but it it's... and it might feel daunting at first, but it's incredibly worth it.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. I'm curious, you've shared so many interesting modalities with us and you seem to do so many different forms of healing and of course, if anyone listening is curious, they should definitely reach out to you and check out all of the amazing things that you have to offer. And I'm also curious if there are any particular [00:42:00] resources like books or podcasts or anything like that, that you would point people to if they're just curious to learn a little more.
Nicole Vande Zande: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I have a couple of book recommendations. If you're interested in crystal work, I love like any Crystal Bible, by Judy Hall that you can get if you're like interested in the actual history to each crystal, their properties and whatnot. I think that was one of my first books, actually, when I was still like a muggle with all of this.
One of the books that is not technically like an informative book, but it has changed my life in the recent future is Tosha Silver's Outrageous Openness. She's an astrologer and amazing human that talks about like submitting things to the divine and how synchronicities and everything in the world is there to support us. And that I cannot recommend enough. It is so supportive and kind and gentle.
I think for artists, I know that this is probably recommended all the time, The Artist's Way, that definitely [00:43:00] gets into a lot of the, the shadow work aspects of spirituality.
If you're interested in tarot, I love Biddy Tarot podcast. That's definitely if you're like someone who's interested in reading or starting your own practice. If you're also doing that, you can definitely reach out to me. I love teaching that.
When it comes to Reiki and energy healing, I love following podcasts. I love True Sex and Wild Love that's they kind of, they go from a more sensuality area, but they, they cover like different types of healing and beliefs.
Um, the Aubrey Marcus podcast. That's definitely a more masculine take on that. And by masculine, I mean, they have a lot of, they are CIS males. But they, they do have a lot of really beautiful, people come and share. I love, Hay House radio. You can get a lot of different people on there.
Yeah, I'm, I'm a very eclectic, spiritual human where I like love reading books of different modalities. I'm reading a [00:44:00] book called Sound Healing right now, I'd have to look up who it's by, but I'm listening to it on Audible. And it's basically the scientific, electromagnetic, breakdown of sound healing and energetic healing. So I'm learning as I'm learning, like the scientific beliefs of why, what I do actually works, which is great.
There's also a really good book called Crystal Muse. If you're interested in rituals and practices. I will say if you get that book, it is written by a white woman, and she does use Palo Santo and Sage, which I don't recommend people use.
If you're going to, buy herbs or buy smudge sticks, or if you're going to use smoke clearing things... definitely reach out to me if you need some guidance, but, people who are Native have asked us to not use Sage. I know that there are some people who are like, "That's fine. You can use it," but... Palo Santo is also contributing to deforestation.
So I just want to make sure that if you are energy clearing, if you are [00:45:00] doing those things, buy responsibly and ethically sourced, but also if you buy that book, she's going to recommend that you Sage, and I just want to make sure that those are not things that I'm putting my stamp of approval on.
But yeah, there's a lot of sources out there, it's just all the things.
Lili Torre: You're a wealth of resources and information. It's so interesting and such a rabbit hole that, like you said, like each thing leads to like five or six more interesting things. Yes. But I will definitely link all of those that you recommended in the show notes
And I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me today.
I think what you do is incredible and amazing, and I will definitely be linking everything that everyone needs to contact you in the show notes.
And I'm so grateful that you chatted with me today.
Nicole Vande Zande: I am so grateful to chat with you. It's been lovely.
Lili Torre: Thank you.
Nicole's [00:46:00] ability to go with the flow and constantly question her assumptions about herself and her circumstances, is something that I deeply admire about her. My journey in my career, and my relationship to religion and spirituality are vastly different than hers. Yet somehow I really get her journey and feel like there are many elements I can relate to, because she shared so truthfully about the emotional elements of the journey, which is something we've all experienced.
If you're interested in working with Nicole, I'm linking Rewired Healing's website in the show notes, and you can also find her in the TDQ Holiday Gift Guide.
I'm also including all of the resources that she mentioned in the show notes. If this type of spiritual exploration is something that interests you, I want to encourage you to take to heart Nicole's advice on ethical practices and to challenge yourself to determine what that means for you. We spent a lot of this episode talking about getting in touch with what you believe in, and that certainly applies with learning more about these types of practices.
As [00:47:00] always, thank you so much for listening. I'm Lili Torre and this has been The Dreaded Question.