Lili chats with Viveca Chow: actor, graphics nerd, Photoshop lover, and aesthetic queen. They discuss how to curate your social media experience, how Viveca intertwines her variety of skills with her artistry, and how to lead with humanity.
Viveca’s website
Viveca’s Instagram: @helloitsviveca
Viveca’s blog
Catherine and Scott McCreary’s episode of TDQ
TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre
Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ Viveca Chow
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello listeners, and welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre. And this week I have the pleasure of welcoming Viveca Chow to TDQ.
I've heard about Viveca from a few people at the Jen Waldman Studio, and when I went to her website to learn more about her, I was blown away by how beautiful her site was. Then I was even more mind blown to learn that she had made it herself.
I was excited to bring her on TDQ to chat about all of the amazing pursuits she has in her life, and I learned so much about her as a person and her incredible journey.
So let's find out what Viveca Chow is up to.
So Viveca Chow, what are you up to?
Viveca Chow: A lot of things. So I've been staying at home a lot, obviously. Spending so much time with my dog...
Lili Torre: The best.
Viveca Chow: Seriously! And I just feel like I'm really taking the time now to kind of just like, you know, like really [00:01:00] sit in my space, because I just feel like sometimes we're so busy and we don't have that kind of, you know, we don't have that kind of stillness.
Like sometimes I'm looking around my apartment and I'm just thinking to myself. Huh? Did that always look like that?
Lili Torre: Yes, absolutely. I do.
Viveca Chow: So I'm really taking this time to kind of do a lot of different things in terms of like, I really love skincare. So I'm kind of exploring that a lot. I'm doing a bunch of self-tapes cause you know, the actor life goes on. I've kind of like dipped my toes into a lot of like graphic stuff and, you know, like I have a very active Instagram, so just continuing that and going on photo shoots and kind of sharing products on Instagram that I really love for myself. So yeah!
Lili Torre: That's a lot of great things to be up to. It sounds like you're using this time as well as possible, even in all its craziness.
And I love what you [00:02:00] said about stillness and noticing things. I mean, I certainly felt that way. I recently moved to Kansas City, but before that I was living in Astoria and I had lived in Astoria for probably seven years and I never realized how much for me, it was sort of a home base and like a commuting point?
Viveca Chow: Right. Yeah.
Lili Torre: Because of course I was going into Manhattan all the time and doing all of my things there.
And during COVID I had the opportunity to just explore the area that I lived in so much more. And I noticed beautiful houses I had never seen I, I think I could map out every square inch of Astoria Park for you now. I just was so amazed by the things that I saw that I had never noticed before.
And I think you're right, it, it has to do with this opportunity for stillness that really allows us to see what surrounds us.
Viveca Chow: I [00:03:00] totally feel that and get that a hundred percent. You know, like when I was younger, I learned about something like selective hearing or something, you know, when we're going day to day and you only hear what you want to hear. So obviously your brain filters out a lot of stuff that you're not hearing.
And you're only focusing on the things that you're, you know, focusing on. And I think this is a little bit like that, you know what I mean? Like when you're going day to day operations, and you're so busy, you're going to auditions, you're doing this and that. Like, you don't have time to like, huh...
Lili Torre: Yeah.
Viveca Chow: So this is what it's like!
Lili Torre: Yes, it's true. And yeah, I mean this time, if nothing else has kept us from being able to continue that pattern and, you know, as this episode is being released, it will freshly be the new year and something that I've been noodling on with a few guests recently is what lessons from 2020, you'll be taking with you into 2021.
So I'm [00:04:00] curious if you have any thoughts on that.
Viveca Chow: Yeah. A lot of thoughts.
I think that at the beginning of the year, I was really, I was really anxious about COVID. So my parents actually live in Hong Kong. So I'm from Hong Kong. And my, my dad actually visited in January and he told me he was like, he was like, Viveca, it's going to get really bad. So, yeah.
And it, because because Hong Kong was going through it already in January. So he was like, you, you gotta be careful, you know, wear the mask and everything, and I think in terms of like that whole aspect, because at the beginning of COVID, I was like a huge advocate for masks and I still am obviously. But I received so much backlash when I tried to share my personal experiences. I went through SARS. So I, I got a lot of backlash because everyone was like, well, masks don't work masks don't do this. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
So from that, I [00:05:00] kind of like learned that, you know, listening, like really listening to other people's experiences were really important and like knowing where they were coming from. And I feel like, just like empathy in general, obviously. And with everything that happened and went down this year I think listening and trying to understand like where they're coming from is so important.
Lili Torre: I agree. I mean, it's interesting to reflect back on that time, like kind of right at the beginning of the pandemic and you know, it sounds like you were a little ahead of the curve even, cause I certainly wasn't thinking about it back in January or even February, but it's interesting to think back to that time and like...
There was just judgment and there still is, but especially then there was kind of judgment in every direction from every side of every argument. Cause it was like at first they were sort of encouraging us not to wear masks because there were questions about the efficacy, but also there was a shortage and they wanted to make sure that [00:06:00] the, you know, medical employees could have what they needed and all of that.
So it was kind of like two sided. If you were wearing a mask. Some people were like, Oh, you're so selfish. Like you don't need that. But also if you like already owned that mask, like there's nothing wrong with wearing it. So it just sort of it was such a great opportunity for all of us to practice empathy, especially those of us who are artists and identify as empathetic people that was really put to the test this year.
And you know, how much can you meet people where they're at? How much can you understand why someone may be doing something or where they may be coming from, even if you don't agree with it or endorse it. And that's the hard part.
Viveca Chow: Yeah. And I think conversations a lot of people like sometimes including myself, like I'm not perfect. We talk at people. We don't talk to people.
So that's kind of like my, my biggest take, like with that. And then obviously with our industry shut down, that was kind of, that was kind of hard.
And it's been hard every [00:07:00] day. And so one thing I really, really appreciated, I don't know who said it, but someone was like art being an artist is a state of mind. It's not not dependent what physical thing you're doing or the next thing you're booking or what you're about to book. So I think that's really important. Like if you're creative individual, you're going to find outlets and being creative.
With that being said, obviously it's so important to know that it's okay to take the time off and, you know, like be lazy for a little bit and being lazy doesn't dictate how talented you are or how much you're worth, you know, like sometimes when you need to take time off for yourself, you need to take that time off.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. I mean, what you said is absolutely true and I think is such a theme of 2020 for so many of us artists is sort of redefining what that means and what that looks like. And, you know, I think the way that we clung to one definition of artistry was always damaging. And [00:08:00] now we're just, you know, we don't have the luxury of continuing to cling to that, to continue to say that I can prove I'm an artist cause here's my contract.
So I'm curious some ways that you have found yourself redefining being an artist or practicing being an artist in a new way this year.
Viveca Chow: Yeah. So since I'm really active on Instagram and I have kind of like a, like a small ish following, I really love to make like, videos in terms of like, you know, introducing what my latest skincare routine is like creating content. I love creating content. And when I do that on my Instagram, I feel like it's kind of another acting thing.
Like without it being too salesy, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I love making videos and I love editing pictures. I just like, I've always loved like aesthetics. So that has kind of kept me sane and I also run like a blog and I just love doing that. And yeah, I just, [00:09:00] whenever I have a thought I tend to ramble on.
So I think the blogging aspect has really, really been very helpful for me and keeping me sane. Cause I can put all my thoughts onto one page. Yeah, but creating content has really helped me stay sane in terms of like introducing products that I love from other brands. Like, Oh, I came across this pair of slippers today, you guys should check it out. And like, it's kind of like an in-home commercial for me.
Lili Torre: Right. And I mean, I love the things that you're talking about too. You're talking about like skincare and slippers and like these things that. Especially skincare, like it can be considered a luxury or, you know, self-care in kind of like a surface level form, if that makes sense. You know, like I think that there are different levels to self-care, but I think something like skincare is so interesting because it is a routine, it is a practice. It's not this like one and done situation that like I did a face mask one time and now my skin is good forever.
[00:10:00] Viveca Chow: I wish it was like that.
Lili Torre: I know, like, honestly, if that ever exists, I need you to make me an Instagram video about it. Cause I need to find that.
But I... I think that's why skincare routines have become so popular is because it's like sharing a part of your life. It's sharing a part of your day. It's sharing a part of your routine and your practice. And so it's self-care in a much deeper form because it's not only literally caring for yourself and your skin, which is going to be with you the rest of your life, but it's also taking the time for yourself and instilling that practice. And I think that is as much the benefit as the actual products themselves.
Viveca Chow: Absolutely totally agreed.
Lili Torre: And I also love... I'm really, really excited to talk to you about this actually, because we've talked about social media a little bit on this podcast and it's always a double-edged sword, you know, it's never, it's never one thing.
And so it's always nice for me to hear from [00:11:00] someone who feels like they have a more positive relationship with social media, especially as a creative outlet, which, you know, I'll just be honest for me personally. I don't feel that so much. I... I'm not a very visual person. So I feel like that's probably part of it for me. I've never been great at like visual art or anything like that. So maybe that's part of why I feel like it doesn't resonate with me as much, but I love hearing from people who use social media in a creative way that fulfills them.
So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your relationship with social media and how it became an artistic outlet for you.
Viveca Chow: Absolutely. It was not always like that. I did not have a healthy relationship with social media, I want to say maybe in 2017, 2018, because what is so dangerous about social media is obviously all the constant comparison. It's, it's toxic, you know, and so the way I kind of [00:12:00] dealt with that was I, I only follow people I actually personally know that is my rule.
Lili Torre: Yeah, I do too.
Viveca Chow: Yeah, and I unfollowed all the celebrities. I unfollowed all the bloggers. I don't follow any famous celebrity, you know, I don't follow like Taylor Swift and I don't even follow like the bloggers that have like 1 million followers.
Because something that I really struggled with was looking at their pictures and being like, dang. I wish I was there. Dang, like, why am I not rich enough to go to Bali like tomorrow and fly first class? You know what I mean? Like there's so many things that like, cause I would say like, I really have an appreciation for money and I love, I love bathing and money. Like. Yeah, no, like who doesn't?
And it's not something that defines me, but I love, I love money and I love my relationship with money. So whenever someone has something fancy that I want and do not have, I hesitate a little, you know, like it doesn't, it doesn't feel [00:13:00] good cause I'm like, Oh, but I want to be doing that too. So the first step I took was obviously unfollowing all these people and it's not to say that I don't like them, or I don't appreciate their work.
It's just so that I can control not comparing myself to other peoples and their experiences. So once I started doing that, everything kind of felt lighter for me because I wouldn't open my feed and see all these pictures on a pedestal, if that makes any sense.
Yeah. So after I did that, I obviously felt a lot better about it. And another thing was that I constantly would post stories like as life was happening and it was like, Oh, I'm eating sushi right now. Let me, let me put this on Instagram or let's, hold on. Let's do, let's take a picture for the 'gram.
And I stopped doing that so quickly. You, you have no idea. Cause I was like, I feel like I'm living under [00:14:00] the pressure of what other people want to see from me. And I kind of slowly realized like, no one really cares that deep. Like it's really not that deep.
So what I do now is that, like, I kind of see it as more like a journal, like if you like a ritual journal. So if you journal, if you, you know, however you express yourself it's kind of like that for me, but I guess, like, I, I totally agree with you in like the visual element is like definitely there for Instagram.
So that kind of worked for me in the sense that it intertwined the visual element and like it being my actual journal and like me processing my thoughts. And instead of, you know, always posting right away. I now like, wait, so I take the picture on the actual camera or I take the video that I do.
And then at night when I go home and when I have some time, then I post being like, I had such a great day today, you [00:15:00] know, so I can still be present in that moment, but share my life in the way I want to, not because of what my followers want to see, but because I want to share that part of my life with everyone.
Lili Torre: Yes. That is like what you just laid out, whether you realize it or not is such a great step-by-step reframe of social media or like a sort of antidote or new mindset to look at it through.
So essentially what you said was like, step one, unfollow people that you don't know. Or who, don't spark joy for you or make you feel that comparison game. Step two, don't post in the moment. So take the picture of the sushi, do whatever it is you want to do, but post it later.
And I think that is something, especially that I hadn't thought of that, you know, Instagram is literally called Insta, instant, like immediate. And there's this feeling. I mean, even when you post something. [00:16:00] Like I'm thinking of when you post in stories and you pull up a picture from like a couple of days ago, it like automatically brings up the date that that photo was taken as well.
You know what I'm talking about? Like, it'll, it'll just put there like December 20th or whatever, and it's like, it's almost admonishing you for, like, this is an old picture. You have to tell people that this isn't right now. And that is something that I had never really put my finger on as being part of what makes it so difficult, I think. Because there is this pressure that like you have to post immediately about something.
And I think that's really great advice. Like, yeah, take your photos, take your videos, like do what you want to do, but post about it later. And then that leads directly into the final thing that you mentioned, which is using it as a journal, which is such a beautiful way to look at it, a journal or, or even, I guess like a scrapbook [00:17:00] that you can reflect on later, because what that's doing is it's shifting your, "who's it for." rather than the, "who's it for" being, "My followers. I have to please everybody. I have to impress everybody. I have to do whatever." If you're creating it for yourself, it will ultimately resonate with other people.
And you know, we talk about this a lot on this podcast. You know, I created this podcast for my college self. So I always think back to who I was in college and what she needs. And by creating it for me, it is human. And so other people will inevitably resonate with it because they're also human.
And so I think using your social media in that way is a great way that then when you post it's automatically a success, because it's part of the scrapbook, it's part of the journal. It's part of that reflection. And then anyone who enjoys it on top of that, like that's a bonus! Awesome! Great, I'm glad, but inherently it's valuable [00:18:00] because it has helped you reflect on your experience.
Viveca Chow: Absolutely. Yeah.
Lili Torre: That's a really great... like you need to like write out that formula and share that somewhere, because that is a great formula for curating your, your social media experience.
Viveca Chow: Maybe I should, because I, you know, like how a lot of people take social media breaks. I've never taken one because I haven't really needed to.
And like, it validated like the, the, the way I kind of chose to do things and like make Instagram under my control, instead of Instagram controlling me.
Lili Torre: Yes. Which is not easy to do, I will say. It is designed in such a way that essentially it does control you. So it's, it seems like you've found some, some hacks to regain some of that control. And I think that, that sounds amazing, especially for anyone listening, who might have a new year's resolution around using social media less, or more intentionally. I think those are some great first steps.
[00:19:00] And in kind of a similar vein, you know, with you being an amazing content creator and a very visual person... your website is so beautiful. Like when I first went on it, I was like, who is this person? This website is amazing. And I was like, I need to know who, who made this? And then I was like, Oh my gosh, it was Viveca!
I would love to hear more about how you learned about web design and how you went about creating your own website and yeah everything about it!
Viveca Chow: Yeah. So funny story. When I was in eighth grade my best friend at the time, and I started this thing called Bebo. Bebo was this platform that was really, really popular in Hong Kong and the UK. And it was kind of like MySpace. So in the sense that like, I can't remember, cause I didn't really have MySpace, but I believe that with your social media account [00:20:00] or profile, you could have like a layout or a theme that like when people click on your profile, they'll see like kind of like a certain theme or aesthetic of your profile.
So my best friend at the time, and I, we kind of hopped on that, like making layouts train and we kind of, cause we were kind of both a little bit loser-ish during that time at school, like we didn't really have any friends, we only had each other.
So we kind of took on learning Photoshop, we learned code, we kind of created all of these like layouts and it started getting a lot of traction and attention. And so much of that like 100K people started using our layouts.
I know it's so wild. And we were also so young at the time!
Lili Torre: Yeah. Like what year was this?
Viveca Chow: Eighth grade. I'm 26 now so...
[00:21:00] Lili Torre: Oh my gosh. That's crazy. You were so ahead of your time.
Viveca Chow: It was just like fun, you know? And then we started having this like huge platform, like we had fakers and it was so wild. Like it was like surreal.
So that kind of happened. And that happened for around two or three years until, you know, everything fizzled out. And so I've learned so many skills throughout those years that I have kind of applied to my life now and who knew that they would have been so helpful, you know, all the coding and the Photoshop work and aesthetic eye... so yeah, that's kind of how it started.
Lili Torre: Wow. I mean, again, you were so ahead of your time, like what great skills to be honing and utilizing. And we actually talked about this before with Catherine and Scott McCreary When I had them on to talk about Artists Who Code...
Viveca Chow: I love them!
Lili Torre: They are [00:22:00] amazing. I'm obsessed with them. And we were talking about how, like, we were all coders in like middle school when we were on MySpace and were creating our own little layouts, but we had no idea what we were doing, we had no idea that those skills would be so valuable.
Like it's so crazy to look back on and especially when people now are like, "Oh, coding sounds interesting, but I could never learn it." It's like, well, you literally learned it in eighth grade with no skills. So yes, you can do it.
And so I mean, that's just such a crazy story. I'm still not over it, that you created this insanely popular and successful platform in eighth grade. Like how wild.
And so then, how have those skills and those interests weaved in and out of your life as an artist, like how has it sort of come in waves where you have times where you're doing a lot of that , or is it pretty like intertwined with everything else that you do?
Viveca Chow: I would say it's definitely intertwined. So Photoshop has honestly been like my [00:23:00] constant best friend, I would say. Just because I'm such a visual and aesthetic person. And I really focus a lot on like color schemes and like color balances and light and shadow. So that in itself obviously has helped me so much with kind of curating my Instagram and also my website.
Because just through years of doing that, it's just kind of like, I've kind of learned like the formula of like, Oh, I think it looks better this way, like personally. So that in itself has really helped my branding, I think just my, and my web presence.
Lili Torre: Absolutely. And what are some ways that you feel like it.. I mean, other than, of course like making an amazing actor website, but are there other ways that you feel like your skills in that arena have bolstered your acting career?
Viveca Chow: I think everything kind of is related to each other. so I feel like the fact that I was able to create a website that I love for myself and that I felt [00:24:00] spoke, you know, my values and, and aligned with like my aesthetic preferences, like so perfectly, like it allows other people to understand like who I am as a person like from the core.
So I think like, that was really important and yeah, as I said, it's related. So not one thing exists without the other. And here's what I will say. I think the fact that I like knew Photoshop really well, it allowed me to kind of grasp other apps really easier. And it led me into like video editing apps. So now, like when I, when I make a video or edit a video, like I kind of know what the quote unquote industry standard is.
Like recently a friend came to me and was asking like, advice about her reel. And it's so interesting, like the tiniest details, like the font she chose or there's this underlying setting on I'm movie that I was like, Hmm, this [00:25:00] doesn't look as professional as I feel like this setting would.
So in that sense, it has allowed me to, for myself, curate like a really professional looking and aesthetically pleasing... whatever, whether it be like a reel, a website, an Instagram post, you know, so yeah, I feel like, I feel like that translated into that kind of work. If that makes sense.
Lili Torre: It does make sense. It makes a lot of sense. And I think even what you were saying about, you know, having the skills to be able to communicate your aesthetic. So like having the ability to not just have to opt into a Wix template or, you know, whatever.
But to really be able to make it your own and make it look uniquely you and communicate who you are in that medium, I think also just communicates more clearly who you are as, as you said a person, but [00:26:00] also as an artist. It gives some perspective. It gives some context of like, this is who I am, this is what I believe in, this is my aesthetic. And so even though yes, it's in a slightly different medium, it's in that more visual medium, anyone going to your website..
I mean, I told you the response that I had when I went to your website, I was like, Whoa, who is this person? This is amazing. And then, you know, I can click on the tab about being an actor and I can learn more about your work as an actor, but even just the website itself gives me a peek into who you are, and just again, your, your perspective on the world, which is what I think we're all looking for from artists.
Viveca Chow: Totally. I feel like one thing that really resonated with me was a phrase that I constantly tell myself and other people, "Human first, actor second," or anything else comes second. And I feel like for me personally, I just love incorporating colors. Because I think colors really tell so much about a [00:27:00] person and really gives. Whatever you're doing a little bit more life. And not to say black and white, like is not, you know, whatever, but I feel like, you know, even like a pop of red that tells me so much about you or a pop of pink or a pop of green, you know.
So yeah, I feel like, at the end of the day, like, stripped away from all our, you know, skills and talents, like what are we? We're all human, and that's what we have, you know, with each other and our connection with each other. It's like the human connection. So I feel like it's so important to present yourself first and like what you believe in because the right people will automatically, you know, like kind of be connected to what you're saying and whatever you project out will speak to them. And yeah, I'm a huge believer of that.
Lili Torre: Yes. I mean, again, it's that idea of connecting with and communicating with your "who's it for" that again, by choosing such a strong [00:28:00] aesthetic, some people are going to really love it like me. And some people might be like, Oh, I don't think that's for me, but what, what a great filter, what a great opportunity to save their time, to save your time, by being clear about who you are and what your perspective is. And I think that's such a great use of those skills and I would definitely vote, probably bolsters your career a lot.
We've also talked a little bit about the fact that you're from Hong Kong and I would love to hear more about your, your story and your journey moving to the States and what that's been like, you know, coming over here and pursuing a career in acting.
Viveca Chow: Yeah. So I was born and raised in Hong Kong until I was 18. So when I went to college, I left and landed in Pittsburgh, a city I've never been. I never even visited the school. I just kind of was like, well, you know, musical theater program that accepted me. [00:29:00] So I'm going.
So I kind of took a huge chance Just because I wasn't physically able to tour the schools. Like I didn't have the financial, financial freedom and also the time to do it, because back in Hong Kong, we were doing, this thing called the IB program, which is the International Baccalaureate program. And it's like insane academic curriculum. So the fact that I was even able to take like four days off of school to go to Unifieds was honestly like. Like a shocker for me.
So I left and went to college and, you know, did the college thing. I graduated and I moved to New York, like a couple of months after. And I've been in New York ever since. I'm the only person from my family to be here, all... like the rest of my family's still in Hong Kong. Yeah, but I have my boyfriend, which we've been dating for nine years.
Yeah. [00:30:00] So I have my own little family here and it gets, it gets a little bit easier because it sounds really sad, but I've kind of become numb to like homesickness. Just because like, I feel like I kind of have to get used to it? Otherwise, you know, like I can't stay here, you know what I mean? So, yeah.
So it's just, it's just been me, myself and I.
Lili Torre: Well, I'm sure this year, especially was a difficult year to be away from your family. I think a lot of people listening can probably relate to that. I certainly can.
And it's funny, you, you mentioned homesickness. I was just thinking about, you know, as we're recording this, it's just a few days before Christmas and I'm not gonna get to be with my family for Christmas.
And I had this like, overwhelming feeling a few days ago. And I was like, what is this? I feel like I haven't felt this in a really long time. And I sat with it and I was like, Oh my God, it's [00:31:00] home sickness. Like, I, I was having like flashbacks to like, you know, my parents dropping me off at summer camp or like dropping me off at college and that, that homesickness feeling, and it was so strange and oddly humbling. And of course, a little sad to feel that.
But I can't even imagine what it's been like for you. And, I do think it's incredibly brave to, you know, just up and go to a completely different country, to a city you've never even been to for college. Like what a, what a brave thing to do.
My, my father is also an immigrant and he came to the US for college, barely spoke any English and just like, did his best and really excelled at math. And you know, I always think about how, how brave my father was to do that and how hard that must've been. And so hearing your story just kind of made me think of him a little bit.
[00:32:00] But you also kind of highlighted something that's I think on a lot of people's minds right now, which is the musical theater college audition process, which is incredibly inaccessible and a huge barrier of entry for a lot of people, you know, thinking of you, the fact that you even had to come over to the States at all to audition and do that, you know, to have like a fighting chance of actually getting into these programs from Hong Kong, I mean, insane the investment of time, money, effort that that is.
And you know, it just, I hope that maybe one of the things that will come from this time is that colleges will be forced to sort of reevaluate the ways that they audition and admit students.
Viveca Chow: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. A hundred times. Yes. I just want to touch really quick on you being homesick. I really, I relate so hard and I am just sending you like a virtual hug [00:33:00] right now.
And thank you so much for sharing that story about your father. That was very heartwarming. And just like inspiring, always to hear about other immigrant stories and yeah, huge fan.
Lili Torre: I'll let him know.
Viveca Chow: The college thing. I think it's just like, it's only accessible to the people who can afford it. And I think had I not been so lucky where I could literally pay a plane ticket, that was what a thousand dollars come here and go back and you know, like I would not be here right now.
Like there's so many people in Hong Kong that they're always like, ah, I can't, I can't afford to go, go to these places to auditions. And you're like, well, yes, of course, because it's so expensive. Like...
Yeah. So I hope that changes as well. And it feels like honestly, the way they kind of took to pre-screening this [00:34:00] year has kind of been like awesome, like yeah, I feel like maybe they should do that more in terms of like accepting videotapes and, and like doing like Zoom auditions or something for people who can't, you know, physically go to these places, I just feel like that would be the best system.
Lili Torre: Yes. I mean, hopefully there will be a lot of innovation in that space and in auditions in general. I don't know, maybe you can create another amazing platform that will help make auditions virtual.
But yeah, I just think that it's, it's just reminder to hear a story like yours and be like, wow, okay, there are literally people paying thousands of dollars taking so much time because that's the other thing is, you know, the flight in and of itself is what, like 16 hours, like it's...
Viveca Chow: woah! You nailed it!
Lili Torre: I've been to Shanghai. So I wasn't sure if it was like the same, but, but yeah, I mean, so you have to have, you know, the timetable to do a long flight like that, to take the [00:35:00] time to to actually like go to the audition, all of that on top of the money that you're spending. I mean, it's insane.
And if we really are the community of people who are accepting and inclusive and, and want to learn from people of all walks of life, then we need to create a space in which that can happen. Just a little bit of a soapbox there, but
Viveca Chow: Preach.
Lili Torre: I'm very glad that you were able to do that and that your journey has brought you here. I think that's amazing.
And I think I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into something you brought up earlier, because it's not a topic that guests usually bring up of their own accord, which is money.
Usually it's the topic that is avoided, like the plague or like COVID maybe. But you brought it up willingly and you brought up the fact that you love money. And I, first of all, just want to applaud you for that, [00:36:00] because I think a lot of people have, you know, opinions about what it says about them if they say things like that, or if they believe things like that.
And I think that's a really limiting belief. I think that you are allowed to love money, want money, and accept money into your life. I think as artists, we're not necessarily used to that, but I would love to know a little bit about where your money mindset has come from.
Viveca Chow: So very interesting you asked me that because I was not always like this. So I actually grew up I grew up with my parents being really frugal, like a pretty frugal mindset. That they're always like, you, you gotta be careful of how you spend, like you always have to think about saving because money doesn't grow on trees.
And while all of those things are absolutely valid, like, you know, I'm not, you know, we shouldn't be spending like, like endlessly, you know, without repercussions. But I recently actually [00:37:00] joined this program called Amplified Artists. And it's created by Jim Cooney, who was my dance professor at college, and he also teaches at BDC.
And basically he has this like incredible relationship with money. Like both his parents were... sorry, if I'm mistaken, but accountants or financial advisors, so he was like really passionate about getting rid of the starving artist mindset.
So from his course, I was able to learn a couple of things. It's a really brand new course, but I started to kind of reframe how I thought about money. And I've also been listening to a lot of like podcasts about like, money, the negative opinions and stigmas about money, if you might have any, which I absolutely did, they're all learned behaviors and thoughts, you know, like you didn't come out of the womb being like money doesn't grow on trees.
So from that, I was able to [00:38:00] reframe it and instead of it being like, something that might be toxic or limiting to my life, like I'm just seeing it as a, as a tool to help me achieve what I want and the utmost happiness. And, you know, like, I feel like also like giving is as important as receiving.
So it, it, it's, it's really all about how you, like what you do with it. You know, if you have it and the resources and the means to share, like, please, please share. But, but yeah, I was able to kind of reframe it because it's really like about mentality.
And I actually have a friend and she is also like, she like loves to manifest and she's like law of attraction and she actually was the one who taught me that like, this is to some, this might sound quote unquote woo woo. But money is all energy exchange, but like not in the sense where it's like, Oh, I'm thinking about money right now, and it's going to appear right in front of me. [00:39:00] But the fact that when you're investing in something like, think about like investing in a laptop, like probably expensive.
Like, no, not probably. That's definitely. But like, think about what your laptop allows you to then do, like, you know, run your own business. You know, like polish your skillsets, that's going to bring you even more money. So in that sense, it's the energy exchange where it's like, you're investing in something for yourself and then other people are going to invest in you because of what you choose to do within that timeframe of investing it. And then there's like that break of whatever you choose to do and then back out into the world.
So that has really helped me, I guess, in terms of like reframing.
Lili Torre: Yes. I love that idea. And I love what you said about money being a tool, that it's something at our disposal, because I mean, going [00:40:00] back to the laptop example, like probably the easiest way to get a laptop is to have the money to buy one and then to buy one.
But you know, if that's not the tool that you choose to use, or if it's not the tool that you feel like you have at your disposal, then there are other options. Like I've heard of TikTok accounts where people do swaps and they'll trade like a pencil for, you know, some thing slightly more valuable than a pencil.
And they'll try to swap up to like crazy things like a laptop or a car or a house. And yeah. I mean, it's certainly incredibly creative and... but it's a lot more work than just having the money to buy a laptop. But thinking of it as a tool that is available to you, and it might just be one that you have to look at differently or utilize differently or sharpen or whatever the case may be.
But yeah, I think you have such a great [00:41:00] point about our mindset with money. The way that we think about it is our reality. So if, if our thought process is, "I don't have enough, I never have enough. I'll never have enough," then that will be true. And I think one of the most damaging parts of the starving artist myth is that the pursuit of money in and of itself is inherently bad or wrong.
Viveca Chow: Well, I think it's bad and wrong when it comes to capitalism. But I think like this is excluding, you know, like obviously I totally recognize the privilege in the fact that I'm even able to think about money in this way. You know what I mean? And just excluding like that and just thinking about like the money itself.
You actually made me think of something I wanted to share. There's this group called Buy Nothing and it's accessible to New York residents and it's split in boroughs. So what group allows you to do is [00:42:00] basically give away free things. And it's like a neighbor group.
So it's like, I have like a water bottle. I'm not using, I'd be like "Here!" And people will hop on that and they'll come to your apartment to pick it up. And yeah, there, you just gave someone who needed a water bottle, a water bottle!
So. Yeah. So definitely. I don't know. I just thought about that when you were talking about the TikTok thing. So it's called Buy Nothing it's split in boroughs and yeah, I love it so much.
Lili Torre: That's so smart and again, it's yeah, it's a getting creative with how you're going to go about getting things and that, you know, it is at your disposal if you just find a way, but you're right. I mean, of course there are... I was about to say there are moral implications around money, but I honestly don't think it's about the money.
I think it's about our intentions and our greed and our... I think a broken money mindset is what creates all of that, this idea that like, I'll never have enough. And so people have to like hoard it [00:43:00] or, you know, use it to gain power because there's fear of losing power, which means you'll lose money, which means you'll be insignificant.
You know, I, I do think that so much of it isn't about the actual money. It's about the fear or the greed surrounding it.
Well, thank you delving into that a little bit with me, because I was just so impressed that you brought that up of your own volition. And it sounds like you've had some great shifts in your mindset that hopefully some of our listeners can attempt to adopt as well.
Well, Viveca, I want to thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me today.
This was such an illuminating conversation around social media, around the college audition process, around money, I mean, it's just incredible where our conversation has gone, and I hope that 2021 is off to an incredible start for you.
Viveca Chow: Thank you so much for having me and I wish the same for you.
Lili Torre: Thank you.
Viveca [00:44:00] is such a light. She has such a quiet confidence about who she is and what she wants to bring into the world, and it was honestly really refreshing to talk to someone who uses social media in such a creative and intentional way. So much so that it's something she actually enjoys and has found a way to make it work for her.
I loved the twists and turns of our conversation, and I couldn't have more respect for her journey. As always, I'm so grateful to you for listening, and I hope that your year is off to a wonderful start. I'm Lili Torre and this has been The Dreaded Question.