Lili talks with Jackie Nguyen, owner of Cafe Cà Phê coffee shop in Kansas City! They discuss how Jackie used #tourlife to prepare to open her own coffee shop, how she pivoted after her tour was unexpectedly cancelled due to COVID, and how she thinks about her career as an artist and entrepreneur.
Jackie’s instagram: @jackienguyenx
Cafe Cà Phê’s website
Cafe Cà Phê’s instagram: @cafecaphe
Madoka's instagram: @madoka_koguchi
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre (Check out her coffee adventures in her highlights)
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TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
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Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ Jackie Nguyen
[00:00:00] Lili Torre: Hello. And welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre and I'm so very excited to share with you the final guest of season three, Jackie Nguyen.
It truly feels like fate brought me together with Jackie, but really it was former TDQ guest, Tara Tagliaferro, who, when she heard I was moving to Kansas City, told me I had to check out her friend's coffee shop Cafe Cà Phê.
As many of you know, I love to check out local coffee shops, if you don't know, you can check out my coffee shop adventures on my personal Instagram, which I'll link in the show notes, so I was super excited to check it out. And when I did, I had the pleasure of meeting Jackie, the owner of Cafe Cà Phê, who had recently moved to Kansas City from Astoria when she found herself out of work due to the pandemic.
I'll let her tell you the story, but as soon as I met her, I knew we had to chat on TDQ because she's so incredibly brilliant. So without further ado, here's Jackie Nguyen's answer to The Dreaded Question. [00:01:00]
So, Jackie Nguyen, what are you up to?
Jackie Nguyen: I am in the midst of operating a food truck in Kansas City. It is the first Vietnamese coffee shop in Kansas City. And I believe it's the first Vietnamese mobile coffee shop in the United States.
Lili Torre: Wow. I did not know that. That's amazing. Well, as someone who has been to this amazing mobile coffee shop, it is unbelievably delicious. I had never had Vietnamese coffee before and I am a convert. I am forever changed. It's incredible.
Jackie Nguyen: Thank you.
Lili Torre: Tell us about what inspired you to start a coffee shop and especially a mobile coffee shop.
Jackie Nguyen: Well I was an actor and I spent so much of my career, while I lived in New York, I did a lot of touring. [00:02:00] And I guess now a year ago, I was on the Broadway revival tour of Miss Saigon. And while I was on tour, I just felt like my career in New York and, you know, my life in New York was something that I kind of wanted to move forward from.
It was really difficult for me mentally to kind of keep up. And so I kept thinking about pivoting my career, but I really didn't know what to do. So I kind of utilized my contract on the road to consider what to do. I had been in coffee for a really long time. I worked at Starbucks ever since I was like in high school.
Yeah, I started like at 16, it was my first like, real job. Got me through, you know, senior year of high school. I work at Starbucks all through college. When I moved to LA for a year, I worked at the Starbucks in Hollywood, and then I worked in Astoria, the Starbucks in Astoria in New York while I auditioned.
So I've been in coffee for a really long time, but more corporate coffee, but still coffee, none [00:03:00] the less. And I dunno, I thought that maybe during tour, after tour, I would kind of like transition to find like a corporate job or like a big girl job.
Lili Torre: Right.
Jackie Nguyen: So I actually originally was like, Oh, maybe I'll start working for Starbucks again, but like, try and see if I could you know, join the, the upper ladder of Starbucks. And then I, I was like, eh, I don't really know if that's going to be the right thing for me. I'm super creative, and I don't know if they'll allow me to be as creative and I don't know.
And on a layoff during tour, I took a trip to Vietnam actually, and it was my second time there. Yeah. And I spent about two weeks there and I got to really explore the city. And I noticed this time around that there were coffee shops there that were just like on every single corner, every single street. I noticed it before, but I think this time, my eyes were just much more open to the coffee culture there.
And I kept [00:04:00] thinking like, Oh my gosh, these coffee shops are so cool. Like I kept thinking, God, I wish I could bring these home. Like, I wish I could have these back at home in the States somewhere. And I guess that kind of gave me the idea of like, okay, well, why can't I just create this, you know, back home?
So then I still had a year left of Miss Saigon and I decided, you know, if I was going to do this, I was going to do it. And I utilized my tour stops to interview different coffee shops around the United States because you know, you're in a different city every week. And so I was like, man, what a cool opportunity. It would be to interview a different coffee shop in a different city every single week.
I started doing that for... I want to say seven months straight, every single city, I went to that our tour stopped in, I interviewed like a coffee shop owner and got their insight, you know, like asked them questions, took notes and started really researching how to do [00:05:00] this and then... Skip to now I'm doing it. So...
Lili Torre: Yeah! There's so much I love about that story. Like the fact that you reached out to a coffee shop owner in every city on tour. Like you, you took advantage of the fact that you were being paid to tour around the country and you had the opportunity to meet all of these people that is so genius. Like what a great idea.
And I mean, were you like intimidated or nervous or scared at all to reach out to these people? Or like, did you ever have anybody be like, no, I don't want to talk to you. Like what, what was that like?
Jackie Nguyen: I wasn't as nervous to reach out to the people as I was to actually meet them and talk to them because I mean, It was an easy excuse to be like, hi, I'm Jackie! Like I'm on the tour of Miss Saigon that's going to be there. You know, it's, it's this like fancy like title I get to kind of use instead of being like I'm some random person, [00:06:00] like, cause usually, you know, when the tour goes into town and mind you, I, I was reaching out to the coffee shops that was like closest to the theater, you know, so that I can get to work easily.
So usually those coffee shops knew what shows were coming in. And so it was like kind of cool that they were like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm so excited. Or even some of them had tickets to our show. So they already knew, you know, like concept of a Broadway show or the concept of a touring show. So I wasn't nervous to reach out. I was more nervous to actually, when those people were like, yeah, come and meet up. I was like, Oh shit. Like now I actually have to like talk to them, you know?
But I wasn't nervous to reach out. I was more like, I think I was just so driven that, like, I don't, I don't know, like human interaction and like talking to people that doesn't really get me as nervous. I'm just more like excited. And I just don't, I don't want to come off too eager either. I just want to make sure that they know. I really just am genuinely curious and I'm trying to [00:07:00] like gather research.
Lili Torre: No, that totally, it makes sense. And I've seen you at Cafe Cà Phê interacting with customers and talking to people like you very much... It seems to be very easy and natural for you and, you know, you seem to be definitely a people person. So I can imagine that maybe that wasn't as intimidating as it might be for some other people.
But I just think that's so cool. And like what a wealth of information you must have gotten, you must be like a low key expert on coffee shops because you have like such a variety of perspectives from literally all across the country. That's so cool. Like what were some major takeaways for you?
Jackie Nguyen: Oh my gosh. I mean, mainly a lot of people, you know, I'd ask the same questions, I'd have the same, like, you know Rolodex of questions that I'd ask every single person and it would really vary obviously. Cause I was in so many different parts of the States, you know, I'd be like on the West coast, I'd be in the Midwest, it'd be on the East coast.
So [00:08:00] I realized that there's just so much variety and that you know, coffee shops have such a like specific, but also not specific audience of people. It's very strange, you know, there's like a bar scene and then there's like a coffee scene. And a lot of things that I've learned is that the coffee community is not very competitive because a lot of the coffee shop owners were like, you know, people want coffee every single day.
It's not like it is something that is limited. It's not that it's something that people only go to, you know, for a special occasion. It's like, it's a thing that and all types of people always need coffee. So I found that the coffee community is such a welcoming and outgoing, but also like keeps to themselves also, like they're just like, not really concerned about other people's coffee shops. They're like, very, just like, you know, this is what we do. These are the types of people we serve all the time and we love it.
Like, you know, there's [00:09:00] different styles of coffee shops. Like there's people that, you know I would interview something like in Appleton, Wisconsin and that coffee shop was definitely like more of a college coffee shop where people like would come and study. And then there were other coffee shops, like, you know, in San Jose or in LA where it's like the trendy, cool coffee shop where, you know, kids would go to Instagram, but not to study, you know, and... or like, you know, the hipster, where people would come in and have a nice cup of coffee and have some conversation.
So I dunno, I just learned so much about this different community that I was just so not part of like, Starbucks is very different of a job. It's more, you know, a franchise and corporate like
Lili Torre: Coffee for everyone.
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah. But these like mom and pop like smaller businesses, ones that I would interview, it's like, I dunno. I just learned more about the culture and the community versus the actual coffee itself.
Lili Torre: Yeah. We talk so much on this podcast about how important it is to [00:10:00] have a clear "who's it for", for anything that you're working on. And you know, nothing against Starbucks, but I definitely think of it as, you know, a "coffee for everyone" type of idea, which can be great in its own way. But I think what really creates that unique experience is when a coffee shop has a clear idea of who it seeks to serve and you know, who its customer is.
And equally as importantly who their customer isn't. And I definitely feel that at Cafe Cà Phê. And you know, many of my listeners know that I, before I left New York, I was doing daily coffee walks in Astoria, and I've continued that practice, although less frequently, because like it's winter and it's cold here in Kansas City.
And that's one of the things I love about going to all these different coffee shops is sort of imagining like, who is this coffee shop for? Like, am I part of [00:11:00] the who's it for of this shop? And sometimes the answer is no, and that's also really exciting and interesting just to see the variety.
And I also really see what you're talking about of it truly being a community and all of the different coffee shops supporting each other. Another one of my favorites here in Kansas City, I believe is a favorite of yours as well, Cafe Corazón, which is an amazing coffee shop here. And I've seen you promote them on Instagram.
And I just think that that spirit is so cool and unique.
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah, I definitely, definitely.
Lili Torre: And I also love that what you said about asking the same questions to all of the different coffee shop owners. Part of what I love about that is it really highlights the similarities and differences. As a practice. I think that that's such a cool thing to do.
I mean, even this podcast, I always start with the same question, "So what are you up to?" And I've never gotten the same answer from two different people. And I just think that [00:12:00] that's, that was such a smart way to go about it.
Jackie Nguyen: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I took it from the actor's studio.
Lili Torre: Oh, cool. Yeah.
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah, I love, I love that show. So, so I was like, I'm going to ask the same questions, every single person,
Lili Torre: Yes, that's brilliant. And then I'm also curious about, you know, what encouraged you to take this journey in Kansas City? What brought you here?
Jackie Nguyen: Tour! We, we were here for two weeks and I was looking for a city that, you know didn't have an over-saturation of like a business like mine, which was like trying to highlight the Asian narrative. And because, you know, on the West coast, there's a lot of types of things like this, like lots of different types of shops and restaurants, and then, you know, on the East coast, just the same, but way more expensive to be able to like open a business.
And so I thought, Oh, maybe, you know, the Midwest somewhere where, you know, the [00:13:00] Asian cuisine and the Asian, like narrative isn't as strong so that I can not only be able to start a business and hopefully succeed, but also be able to spread awareness into an area that is lacking in that.
And so we were here for two weeks, which is sort of a longer sit down for a tour and we were here during Christmas. And so I actually already had some friends from New York that were actors that were pivoting as well. And they decided to pivot to Kansas city about a year before I had gotten here. And you know, one of the girls is actually also Vietnamese and she's like, Jackie, I think you would really like it out here.
I was like "Kansas City? Girl, no way. No fricking way." Like I thought Kansas city when I, I don't, I didn't know shit about it. So I thought that it was like, you know, in the middle of nowhere with like farms you know, I didn't know anything about it, but when I got here, I was like, Oh, it's cool. It's like a cool city and big and filled with lots of like opportunity and arts [00:14:00] and like, you know, forward thinking people, you know, I did not expect to be in a city that was like that.
So. Honestly, when I moved here I just really felt like I made the right decision. So yeah, it was really random, but also not random. Because, you know, time that I spent here on tour, I had friends that already lived here. So it just seemed like it was a jump that was like willing to kind of dive into.
Lili Torre: Yes. And while it may seem random, I have to at least give you credit because I had never even been to Kansas City before I moved here. So, you know, you win on that count. And not to mention, you know, the cost of living is just... It's delicious.
Jackie Nguyen: From Astoria to here. And then I went to, you know, I moved from Astoria to Long Island City, right before I moved out of New York. And... Girl, the prices here in [00:15:00] Kansas City just are just it's like, you can't even compare it. I'm like, God, what was I doing in New York for so long?
I don't know. I don't judge no judgment cause I was there for 10 years, but like, wow. How much room you can have for just way less money is just amazing.
Lili Torre: It really is. And I mean, I agree with you. Of course. I, I understand why people are in New York. I loved living in New York, but at the same time, it's like, if you have that curiosity, which to be honest, even before the pandemic, I had that curiosity about what life might be like outside of New York for me.
And. I just, I've been so glad that I took this time to explore this option and see what it was like. And I've been so happy here and it's been so cool and you know, who knows what the future holds, but I just think that, you know, one of my, my dreams [00:16:00] for this time for the outcome of this time is that artists find themselves in communities that need more artists. And I don't, I don't think art just needs to exist on the coasts. And so, I mean, we talked about this when we met, you know, it's so exciting to see fellow artists moving here and coming here and putting some roots down here to contribute their creativity and their gifts to a new community.
Jackie Nguyen: Yes. And I hope a lot of people do that without feeling shame, because there's a lot of shame attached to not being in New York. There's a lot of shame in, oh, did I give up? Or now am I, you know digressing or whatever, but it's like, no, the quality of life that you're going to be living is just like astronomically better than New York.
And why, why can't we be successful elsewhere? You know? So I don't know. I I've been trying to, at least that's what I tell myself and [00:17:00] because I have, you know, I'm just like every other freaking musical theater actor is, you know, I attached myself worth to whether or not I'm on Broadway or whether or not I'm in New York.
And I have let that go and I feel so much better. And the only person that really gave me that sense of like I don't know, definition of success and self-worth was myself. So I was like, you know what? Like, I can redefine this for myself, move somewhere else and still be successful. Still be an artist.
Still be just as cool and creative. And I don't have to be in New York. You know, I did that for so long and it was great. It was a good time. I learned so much. I would never change the time that I was in New York, like the hustling and stuff. But, you know, there are different seasons and with COVID, especially with a lot of us kind of, I mean, not- all of us out of work. I think it's a kind of like a good excuse to do that pivot and [00:18:00] to try and figure it out because no one is like doing anything right now. So you might as well figure it out, you know?
Lili Torre: Exactly. And that's such a great segue into what I wanted to ask you, which was kind of like, what was that moment like? What was that experience like when, you know, you found out Miss Saigon was closing or stopping, I should say because of COVID and you had a decision to make, like talk me through how that process went.
Jackie Nguyen: It was absolutely awful. It was probably like one of the worst moments of my life because I mean, yes, we were obviously it's a pandemic, right? So like, we're all kind of like, what is happening? Like as a world.
You know my cast found out through zoom and we were actually the very last touring show to perform. So it was, I think, a Sunday that we stopped our two show day. And all [00:19:00] other touring shows had stopped on Friday. So we were still going and we were very, very, very last. Ones to perform. And I don't know, at the time, I didn't really understand what was going on. I don't think any of us did.
And so, like, we shut down on a Sunday and then that following Thursday, we had a group Zoom call and all of us, it was like over 50 of us found out on Zoom that, you know, that was the last time we were going to do Miss Saigon. They were not going to plan on reopening and... God, it was awful because for me personally, it was my dream show.
I had probably auditioned for it. Like I was in the running for the West End production of it, when it came out in the West End, I was running for the Broadway revival of it. I was in the running for the Broadway replacements of it. Like I'm telling you, when I say like, I've auditioned for the show for like five years, like, I'm not kidding.
And when I finally booked [00:20:00] this version of it, you know, with the original team and everything, I was just like, Oh my God, like all my hard work paid off. And so here we go, you know, in an instant it was taken away and taken away for good. That was really awful.
And it also was awful because, you know, I had lived with, the cast and lived and worked with the cast for like 18 months at the time we were already in our 18th month of the run. And we did the last show. We didn't get to say goodbye. We didn't get to pack our favorite belongings or our trunks. All of our personal items were still on the road. It was awful. It was awful actually.
And I just remember thinking like, what am I going to do? And I was like, I couldn't move back to New York. And that was like the shutdown period where, you know, we were just like, all of us had to be in quarantine.
At the time I was in Florida. That was like the last city we were in. And so luckily I have family in Florida, so I ended up just [00:21:00] driving to where my brother's house was and I stayed there for two months doing literally nothing, because we didn't know what to do. No one could go outside. We didn't know, you know, things were like completely shut down. Like cases were getting crazy.
So it was awful. I, I struggled a lot during that time. Cause I was like, what is going on? And then like, you know, we all were like, Oh yeah, Broadway is going to come back in a few months. Like, and then it was like, no, like it's, it's not going to be back for a really long time. And now literally a year later, like.
I don't know, it's wild to me to even process.
Lili Torre: Yeah. And then at what point were you like? Okay, like I'm going to go open a coffee shop in Kansas City.
Jackie Nguyen: I want to say literally two at the two month mark. Like things were kind of going, like they were reopening at least like in Florida and in the Midwest. And I was like, you know, if I'm going to do this, I gotta do it now. So, you know, I still, [00:22:00] luckily in that part of my business plan, I was still in like heavy research, like branding.
I was still doing a lot of stuff that I didn't... I wasn't like open by any means, you know, I was still developing it. So a lot of it I could do at home and inside. So I want to say two months after we shut down, I finally was like, I got to do this.
I'm very tenacious and I'm very driven. I really can't sit for a while, like at all. So I tried not to delay it too long. Because I really was just like, well, if I'm not going to go back to theater, like I'm going to do this. So yeah. Two months after the we got, let go. I started kind of like diving deep in,
Lili Torre: Yeah. And then at what point did you decide to make it a mobile coffee cart?
Jackie Nguyen: Well it kind of was a decision that was made because of COVID. So originally I wanted to have like a brick and mortar. I wanted to have [00:23:00] an actual physical shop. And so when I moved to Kansas City, I want to say it was like, June, and this is still, you know, mid pandemic. And so I would meet up with different landlords of buildings.
I would meet up with like banks and try to talk to them to get a business loan. And everyone was like, dude, all these restaurants and bars are shutting down. Like, this is not a good time to open up a coffee shop. And I was like, great. Like what do I do?
And I have a team of mentors. Like I, I hired a coffee consultant, who is like huge in the industry to help me, you know, with... I've never freaking done anything like this before, so my consultant was like, have you ever considered doing a mobile shop? And I was like, ew no, I, not a food truck. Like, that is not what I want. That's not the vibe.
But he was like, well, first of all, like, you can make it the vibe you want. So it doesn't have to be like food truck style, but it has to be [00:24:00] malleable, you know, you have to be, you have to consider the times, like, what if COVID doesn't end and you have to like serve outside for a while or, you know, be mobile and to go?
And then I was like, you know what? You're right. Like if I just, you know, stay really stubborn, I might not ever get this done. So I decided kind of like in a week, like I made that decision. I was like, you know what, now I'm going to look for trucks and I'm going to look for, you know, food trucks and carts and all that stuff and then like, literally, I guess it was meant to be, cause like the minute I made that decision, I found like a mobile shop, which is what I'm using now on Facebook marketplace.
I met this girl and she was like, yep, come look at it. And I bought it from her.
Lili Torre: Oh, my God. Talk about meant to be! That's crazy.
Jackie Nguyen: It's crazy. Yeah, it actually is. And so I just jumped in girl. I just made the decision and I just did it. I took a [00:25:00] risk and I did it. And now it's still my mobile truck.
Lili Torre: Yes. And you know, our listeners might be thinking like, Whoa, a mobile coffee cart in Kansas City in the winter, like sounds cold, but luckily you're not outside right now. You're in an amazing, pop-up in the Firebrand coworking space. It's gorgeous. I'm obsessed with it. And tell me how that collaboration came to be.
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah. So Firebrand is like a coworking space in Kansas City and it's woman-owned and she wanted to find- the owner wanted to find a coffee shop to kind of like open in the space. And at that time I had already got my trailer purchased and the warehouse is huge. So I told her like, I can't really open up a shop cause I already committed to this like mobile status.
But you know, I was like, well, during the winter, I don't really know what I'm going to do because food trucks don't really function outside and [00:26:00] we collaborated and came up with the idea to bring the cart inside. And so now, like my food truck is inside of a huge warehouse and we serve there every day pretty much.
And it's worked out and it's, you know, it kind of was just like, honestly meant to be like, I don't know. And, and it's funny because Megan who owns Firebrand got my name from one of the coffee shop owners that I interviewed while I was on tour.
Lili Torre: No way.
Jackie Nguyen: So when I came to Kansas City on tour, I made sure that I tried to interview as many shop owners, because I knew that this was the city I was going to open my shop in and I wanted to get their specific input about, you know, the city and where I could place myself. And one of the owners like recommended me. It was Thou Mayest and Cafe Equinox. They are like a shop and slash plant shop. And so shout out to Bo Nelson who owns that shop for like hooking me [00:27:00] up.
Lili Torre: That's amazing. I- there's so much in your story that's truly about the power of reaching out and telling people. And telling people is something that was like a huge aha moment for me, like two years ago that you just have to tell people what you're working on and ask them questions and be open to collaboration.
And I think sometimes people feel I think either icky or protective of their ideas, like it's not ready. Like I can't, I can't tell people about it yet, or, Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to talk about myself. I don't want to be, you know, too much or whatever, but there's such a, a generosity in sharing your ideas and you're absolutely inviting collaboration. You're inviting, you know, support and, and these types of moments, you know?
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, I don't know, I feel like [00:28:00] karma has been a good friend of mine. And so I feel like if I were to tell someone my idea and they would steal it, I'm like, I don't have to worry, karma has got my back. Like I don't, you know what I mean?
I don't know. I, I think networking is the one thing I really took away from theater and was like something that I knew I needed to not only get good at, but that was vital to business. And like, for example, you know, like all the networking that I did on tour led me to this opportunity that I'm utilizing today. And so you know it is important to reach out and ask for help.
Like, I really was like, not even kidding, like half of these like coffee shop owners, I'd be like, Can you please help me, like, is this lucrative? Like how do you do it? How do you finance it? Like, what did you do to do this? You know, I was, I just like, was not afraid to be like... because I truly didn't have any experience. How else was I gonna learn?
Lili Torre: Yeah. And I think that's a really great point [00:29:00] that once you've made the connection and you have the opportunity to like delve a little bit deeper with these people, asking the real questions you know, not tap dancing around it and getting to the core of what it is you need from them.
Or you want to know from them, I think is a big part that people don't talk about as much. A lot of it is about initiating the connection and... yeah, I think that's just, that's really smart. And it takes a lot of confidence in yourself and your idea in order to, to really be honest about those questions and just kind of go for it. And I think that's really commendable.
And something else that I love about Cafe Cà Phê is that you've also taken every opportunity to support as many people, creatives, makers as possible. I mean the coffee shop itself is just a parallel career lover's dream because you're, you [00:30:00] feature so many amazing items that can be purchased that are created by artists as their parallel careers.
Jackie Nguyen: Yes. I mean, every single item you know, that's like part of the merch of my shop is all, well, most of them are actually the cast of Miss Saigon. Yeah, they all like pivoted to make candles, masks, you know, there are mask chains. There are just like so many different things.
And I really, again, like love my community, my theater community. I love my coffee community. And like I saw that I could use, I guess, my shop as like a hub for all of these products and all of these, like pivoting careers from my friends to be like, Hey, if you want to like, you know, sell your stuff, please sell it here. And I just thought, it's like, I love collaborating. I just think it's the coolest thing.
And, you know, I had to support my [00:31:00] family, like my coworkers and my cast members are my family. And if they are trying to pivot as well, like, cause they were there for me, you know, during the process and the research of like, you know, my shop and everyone had to figure out how to do something while you know, this pandemic is happening.
So yeah, all, all of my products are sourced from, you know, there's, I got stage managers there, I have fellow actors, you know, I have Black owned businesses, I have Asian owned businesses. Like it's just a hub, honestly, of like, So many different people's career changes on the shelves of Cafe Cà Phê.
Lili Torre: Yes. And even actually, now that I think about it, your beautiful, amazing barista also is your wonderful friend Madoka who was on tour with you.
Jackie Nguyen: Yeah. So she moved to Kansas City for my coffee shop because you know, she and her husband were out of [00:32:00] work because of the pandemic. And they were kind of you know quarantining at home with, you know, their in-laws and I was like, look, I need help. And she was like, "Okay!" She, and then she moved to Kansas city and helped me.
So now she's part of our team and yeah, I mean, she was like one of my first friends that I met during like final callbacks of Miss Saigon. And we became essentially siblings on tour and she moved to Kansas City and now she's like my full-time barista and she's my future manager.
Lili Torre: She's amazing as a person and as a barista, she just incredible and I've loved getting to know her. I was just so excited when she was like, Oh, I was actually on, on tour with Jackie. Like, that's just so...
Everyone listening to this podcast knows that like, that is my dream for artists to create opportunities for themselves, that then blossom into opportunities to uplift and support other artists. I just think is truly the [00:33:00] dream, which sort of brings me back to what we were talking about earlier.
You know, quote unquote, giving up on your dream of being an actor and, and moving out of New York City and how hard that can be. And I, I feel like in this moment right now, a lot of people as we're coming up on that one year mark, a lot of people are sort of mourning all over again and having that sort of a second wave hit them of just the reality of the situation that we're in.
And for people who have either pivoted or moved out of New York or try different things or started a parallel career, I sometimes feel a sense of like, Oh God, did I give up on my dream? And you know, I know we touched on it earlier, but I would just love to hear your thoughts about creating space in your life for this new dream.
Jackie Nguyen: Hm. I mean, I struggle with [00:34:00] that too. I mean, even today, it's funny. I, in the coffee shop, I get to play whatever music I want because I own it so I can do whatever I want.
Thank you. And so today I randomly played Hamilton and I have not listened to musical theater in like a hot minute and Madoka just started giggling. And we were just like, Oh, and then we started playing different, you know, we started playing Hairspray and then I kind of played Miss Saigon as like a joke. And then I couldn't even get through the, like one of the first songs I had to stop. Cause it was like really weird to hear it. And I was like, eh moving on, moving on. I'll just play Beyonce again.
And it's hard. I personally had a really, really hard time with the show closing. So I actually like swept it under the rug for a really long time. And I used kind of like my coffee shop as a band-aid because I just truly couldn't process it. It was too much for me. [00:35:00] I like... the minute I started thinking about it, I would literally like go into the deepest depression and I would go into like sobbing fits, but then as I kind of like worked my way out of that, I realized that the impact that I have as an artist can still exist in other ways, that's not a musical or a play.
And it's very apparent the waves that I'm making here in Kansas City. And like, I've been getting such great feedback. I've been getting like amazing, amazing community coming together because of my artistry, honestly, like I have combined my artistry with my coffee shop. Like every post every, you know, everything that I do, my website, you know, my drinks, my setup, everything that I do, I incorporate artistry in that.
But it is hard for me because there are moments where, you know, a lot of customers, they find out, you know, Madoka and I have been on [00:36:00] Broadway and they ask about you know, are you gonna ever do theater again? And I honestly have no answer. Like, I don't know how to say yes or no, because I don't know. Because I, there is a huge part of me that I, was my identity for so long. Like I went to college for musical theater. I moved to New York. I identified as an actor for so long and now like, just to be like, Oh, I'm not, it was, it's really weird.
So I think I'm also in the process of mourning that and realizing that... but the thing is like I was already pivoting the pandemic, because I felt very trapped and very imprisoned by the musical theater world. I did not feel like it was going to be for me for much longer anyway. And I knew that I had to leave it at some point, either temporarily, for a short time, or permanently. I just knew that I [00:37:00] needed to kind of give musical theater a break.
So I guess my transition was not out of necessity, it was because I was already planning on doing it, but there's a huge part of me that still misses it. And there's a huge part of me that wonders if I failed. Like, I know that I didn't, but you know, I still struggle with stuff like that. Like, Oh my God, I left New York. And like, does that mean I failed? Or does that mean not like my dreams are over, you know, but then I kind of come to and I'm like, Hmm. Okay. Like, I'm fine.
Lili Torre: Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing all of that. I know I put you on the spot a little bit, and it's a difficult question, but you answered it so beautifully. And I love essentially, what you touched on is that yes, that you bring your creativity, your artistry, who you are as an artist to everything that you do in Cafe Cà Phê. And I absolutely see that. And it is [00:38:00] so clear to me having been there, looking at your Instagram, having spoken to you tonight, like it's just very clear.
And I think that that is more important than a lot of actors realize, that being in touch with why you are an artist being in touch with the impact that you want to have, that you're choosing musical theater as your vehicle. But if you know the reason why you want to do it and what impact do you want to have on the world, then you can apply that to anything as long as you allow yourself to bring that part of yourself to whatever it is that you do.
And you do that so successfully with Cafe Cà Phê. And in my opinion, that might be part of why you struggle when people ask you, you know, like, are you, are you going to act again? Because it doesn't feel like this separate thing in the sense that like you have to be one or the other, it's a tool in your [00:39:00] tool belt, it is a paintbrush that you have that if you want to pick it up again, I mean, guess what? You moved to Kansas City. And there are lots of great theaters here and you can do that here. And yeah, I just feel like, you know, you're still, you're still doing the thing. You're still creating the change. You're still having the impact. You're just doing it in a different medium right now, but that other medium will always be available to you.
Jackie Nguyen: Of course. And one thing I really struggled with was that other medium was really hard. Like there's not... I don't want to hate on it, but like, as someone I feel like I can, because I have been in it for so long, but like... I have nothing to my name other than a line on a resume and hope that resonates with a lot of people when they're trying to make the decision to pivot, like.
I don't have anything other than a line [00:40:00] on a resume and maybe like my name printed on a Playbill, but like, I don't have proper retirement. I I don't have like ownership of a house. I don't have assets because you know, so many artists put so much of their livelihoods and their money and their time into trying to get this dream. And listen like that dream is literally like, none of us are living it right now.
And I opened my shop because I wanted to have like something to my name. I wanted to be able to be like, I own this and I did it. And it wasn't because, you know, choreographer, casting director said that I got the job. It was because I get myself.
And that was just so important to me because. As much as I love performing, I do. I hate the lifestyle of an actor. It is not one that I enjoyed. It was hard. It [00:41:00] was taxing, it was brutal. And so there there's that too, you know, it's like as much as I love theater, as much as I love the arts, like there's still a lot of money and a lot of things that is lacking in the arts community that I wish we could have like a whole new, like reckoning, like, you know, Renaissance of the arts, where the artists are, the ones getting paid and the artists are the... I dunno, but we just get so like bruised and abused, like, so I don't know. I have, you know, clearly I have a complex about all this...
Lili Torre: No, you're absolutely right though. Like, It's so true. And we're just supposed to pretend that "Oh, but, but I love what I do. I would never do anything else." Like that. It's so the opposite of empowering what's the opposite of empowering? Disempowering? Is that a word? I don't know, but that's what it is.
Jackie Nguyen: Yes. Ugh. I can't, I can't, [00:42:00] I don't know. I can't stress that enough that like, I am still an artist. And just because I own a coffee shop, doesn't make me less of one. And I know that other people still struggle with like, Oh my God. But what if I get a different job? Like I'm no longer an actor. It's like, well, okay. So, so what?
Like does being an actor make you some fucking like superstar? Like, no, because. Clearly, none of us are acting because of this crazy pandemic. But I don't know the industry itself has a lot of issues. The industry itself has a lot to go through and fix to take care of us. But I don't know. I just like, it is still a huge struggle of mine to find the balance of identifying myself still as an artist. I might not be acting, right? On stage, still able to use my voice and use my creativity and still, I still have an audience, you know?
So, [00:43:00] yeah. It's been hard though. I mean, I can't, I can't deny it. Like, I, I still struggle with it a lot.
Lili Torre: Of course, but I, I do think a big part of it is a willingness to show up as, as an artist and show up with those skills and genuinely apply them in that different setting and, and you absolutely do that. And it's just so cool to see.
Of course, well, to wrap up today, I would love to hear from you if, if someone is listening to this podcast right now and they feel like they are in the midst of deciding either to pivot into something else or potentially to make a big move like you and I did.
Is there any advice that you would share with them?
Jackie Nguyen: I would say fucking do it.
It was the best decision for me. You're not going to regret it. I [00:44:00] truly like, I really think, if you're going to do it now is the freaking time to do it and you can always go back to acting. It's always going to be there. No one's going to care. No one's going to judge you for trying something new.
If anything, like you are the brave one, you are the bold one by trying to figure it out, you know, and like, it is totally okay to pivot. And it is totally going to be a trial and error period. But I, I honestly think you should do it. And anyone who's considering it take this as a huge sign to fucking do it.
Because like, there's never gonna, knock on wood, there's never going to be another time in the world where, you know, theater's just nonexistant. Right. Right? So you might as well take this time to try something you've always wanted to do or something in your gut that's like, you know, maybe I would be good at this. And you might be, you might be even [00:45:00] more successful, but because of this narrative, you've told yourself about acting and theater and you're too scared, like use your fear to jump into it even more.
So I would say do it, and I would say, ask questions. Don't be afraid to feel stupid. Like there are so many times where I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so stupid. Like, I'm such a dumb actor. I don't, I don't know anything about business. I don't know anything about opening a shop. And I would literally say that to literal coffee shop owners.
I'd be like, I'm so sorry. This might sound like a really stupid question, but like, how do you do this? And they're like, Oh my God, don't worry about it. Like, and you can find you find out that, like, this actually got me through it. Like there are idiots out there that have done this or idiots that have like opened bars, opened restaurants, wrote a book, like taught classes. Like there are idiots out there that have done it. And so if they can do it, like, I'm not calling you guys idiots, but I'm just saying. Like [00:46:00] you can do it too. And like, it's not completely out of reach. If you can perform onstage, and act like someone else, or, you know, go to an audition five, six times a week and get denied.
Like you're actually very, very well equipped for the real world of like regular things.
Lili Torre: I mean, that was a phenomenal answer. It was also the wrong answer. The right answer was "Move to Kansas City and hang out with me and Jackie," come on!
Jackie Nguyen: Right. It's up and coming. It's so awesome. So cool. I love it so much here.
Lili Torre: Truly, truly we're welcoming anyone and everyone who wants to join us here because it's very magical.
Jackie, thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me. You are just incredible. I'm so obsessed with you and Cafe Cà Phê. I just, I really admire everything that you've done and the fact that you've done it so quickly, I haven't called that out yet in this episode, but wow, this has all happened [00:47:00] so fast and whenever our listeners get an opportunity to come to Kansas City and go to Cafe Cà Phê, they will see what I mean. It is incredible what you have done. And I just admire you so much.
Jackie Nguyen: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Like thank you for giving me this platform to kind of like, you know, talk and be, be my cray cray self. So...
Lili Torre: Any time!
I mean, what an amazing final guest of season three, am I right?
Jackie's story feels like the culmination of a lot of experiences many of us can relate to, and many of the themes that we talk about on this podcast. Her reach out story of talking to coffee shop owners across the U S, her thrival job at Starbucks that helped give her the knowledge she needed for her parallel career, her awareness of the fact that her acting career was just one medium through which she could make change and fulfill her purpose, her bold move to a new city during this pandemic, all major themes that resonates so strongly with [00:48:00] me and with the overall mission of this podcast.
I definitely recommend you follow Jackie and Cafe Cà Phê on Instagram for a master class in branding, marketing, and storytelling. And whenever you come to Kansas City, trust me, you do not want to miss Cafe Cà Phê. The Electric Latte is my personal favorite, but my husband is a huge fan of the Hella Good Latte, which is well... hella good.
While Jackie is the final guest on season three, it's not quite over yet as I'll be doing my solo reflection episode that I usually do at the end of each season. So I'll be back next week.
And as a reminder, my Podcasting 101 class at Ahava Theater Company starts on March 10th. So there's still time to join us if you're interested. I'll link the info in the show notes.
Thank you so much for listening. I'm Lili Torre and this has been The Dreaded Question.