Lili chats with Leya Van Doren: artist and creativity coach. They discuss how meditation and yoga became part of Leya's life, and how she incorporates them into her work as an actor and as a coach.
Leya's website
Leya's instagram: @the_modernmermaid
Leya's Creativity Circle and coaching
The Artist’s Way
Reimagining Small Business Town Hall from Hello Seven
TDQ’s Website
Instagram: @thedreadedquestion
Lili’s instagram: @lili_torre
Email: thedreadedquestionpodcast@gmail.com
TDQ #59 Leya Van Doren
Lili Torre: [00:00:00] Hello listeners! And welcome back to The Dreaded Question podcast. I'm your host, Lili Torre. And this week, my guest is Leya Van Doren.
Leya is an endlessly creative person who has started a parallel career as a creativity coach. Leya has had such a wealth of experiences, both as an artist and as a person. All of these experiences have come together to help her create the path that she's on now.
And I'm so excited to share her story with you. So without further ado, let's dive into Leya Van Doren's answer to the dreaded question...
Lili Torre: [00:00:00] So Leya Van Doren, what are you up to?
Leya Van Doren: [00:00:04] Oh, great question. Well, yeah, I guess in this period of my life, through COVID and everything, I was living in New York City, but af- you know, ever since mid-March, I came to Connecticut, I've been living with my boyfriend here in Connecticut, and I still work from home. I have a day job I'm in theater, admin, so I still have been working.
But really kind of taking this time to write, I've been writing a lot. I've been reading a lot. I've been taking a lot of walks in nature. It's- I feel really lucky that I was able to get away from the city and kind of reconnect to nature. Cause that's been really helpful during this time. Yeah, I just taught, last weekend I taught, a creative writing workshop on creative mornings.
And so I've been, it's been fun, kind of like doing all the online stuff that's so prevalent and available now because everyone can only really connect online
Lili Torre: [00:01:00] Yes, totally. You said you've been writing a lot and you taught a creative writing workshop. What type of things do you typically write?
Leya Van Doren: [00:01:10] Yeah. So actually ever since COVID I was feeling really like, kind of creatively stifled and blocked at that when like at the beginning of all this, and I'm someone who's super, multi-passionate, super creative. Like my creativity is my priority every single day, but I was just having a hard time finding inspiration and like, you know, without your usual routines, it was kinda hard to like... and because COVID kind of took away, like all... everything we thought we had planned for this year, you know, that was just not a thing anymore.
So I kind of had to take some time to you know, figure that out and what I started to do, I made a pledge to myself that I would write an essay every single day. I wanted to just like write, Yeah. And so I, what I started doing was just kind of like excavating a lot of my past lived experiences and like writing about travel and writing about, just like different periods of my life.
And I think that that's such a beautiful thing that this time gave us, was like, a pause for us to like really reflect and have that time to go inward and reflect on like, our past life experiences in our past life choices, because I think that when we are in our normal daily lives, we're just so go, go, go that we never really take that time to pause and think about it.
So that that's been a really cool project and I, I had to like put zero pressure on myself to really, whatever it is, whatever it is that comes out. That's. that's like the right answer. And so that was that's part of what I was teaching in this creative mornings workshop.
Cause I've- ever since COVID and a few months before I, I started to teach these like guided meditation, journaling workshops, using creativity as a tool to really draw inward and connect with yourself. And I really believe that writing is such a beautiful tool of excavation and of like, diving into the unknown, because when I sit down to write something, I might have a general idea of what I want to write about, but truthfully, I kind of let the words, tell me what I'm trying to write about.
So that's been a really cool exercise and just kind of like letting go of expectation, letting go of any pressure and just kind of seeing what flows out and like following that trail, wherever it leads. So that's been a really cool personal exercise and then taking it... that's what I was doing in the workshop that I taught kind of like guiding people and prompting them to kind of have the same experience of just following that, that trail.
Lili Torre: [00:03:42] Yes. I love that. And I love that you refer to that as a meditation, because I think something that I struggle with sometimes in writing... it's probably no surprise, but I am more of an auditory person. And so for me, instead of journaling, oftentimes what I do is record voice memos of kind of my thoughts or whatever prompt I'm sort of noodling on.
And I find what that does for me is I can speak a lot faster than I can write. And so sometimes when I'm writing, I find that I'm self-editing before I get to the end of the sentence, but I think what's so interesting about thinking of it as a meditation is sort of regaining that power over your thoughts and not letting the monkey mind kind of race and get ahead of you.
And like you said, kind of going on the journey with your thoughts and allowing whatever comes to come rather than self editing in the moment. So for me or anyone who's listening, who may be like me, I would say it's probably a good idea to just give journaling a try rather than thinking, "Oh, that's not for me."
Maybe it's all the more reason it is for you. I think that's really interesting
Leya Van Doren: [00:04:56] Yeah. Oh, I love that. It's so cool to hear. That you, you like to record voice memos because I'm, so I'm such like a writer. I think sometimes I don't even know what I'm thinking until I put it down on paper and like, that's a way that I process like thoughts and feelings. So it's cool to hear. Yeah. If you're more auditory based.
Cause I, cause sometimes I wish that I was the other way of like, I wish I could just pull out my voice memo and like. record something that then maybe I can translate into something else, but I dunno, it just doesn't work like, like that for me, I kind of have to like put it down on paper.
Lili Torre: [00:05:32] I love that. And I think it's interesting for, for either side of the coin to try the other way. You know, if, you know, for you maybe trying a voice memo would be really enlightening, you know, it's just
Leya Van Doren: [00:05:44] Oh yeah. I
Lili Torre: [00:05:44] love that
try something different. Yeah. And again, you mentioned the fact that, you look at it as a meditation, and I know that that's something that is important to you and a big part of your life.
So I'd love to hear, You know your journey with meditating and how you got started with it and what that looks like in your life.
Leya Van Doren: [00:06:02] So kind of spirituality like yoga and meditation have been a really big part of my life since I was a teenager. Actually when I was 14, my mom, moved me and my siblings to live in an Ashram, which.
Lili Torre: [00:06:18] Whoa.
Leya Van Doren: [00:06:19] Yes. And I always tell people, cause like a lot of people have never heard of the word Ashram. They're like, what is that? And I'm always like, "Okay, it's the place that Elizabeth Gilbert goes in Eat, Pray, Love in India. She goes and stays at an Ashram. It's kind of like that.
Essentially it's a spiritual community. And so I lived there for the first couple years of high school. And so for the first time I was introduced to all of these Eastern philosophies, like yoga, meditation, and Vedic astrology.
So that's kind of how I got introduced to it. And like at the time it was very strange and nobody- meditation still kind of like, wasn't really in the mainstream. I mean, now you see it everywhere and it's really become popularized, but like back then, It was just, it was weird if you were like, you know, into all of that.
So I got interested, introduced to as a teenager and like started just diving into all of that. But really, I think in college, I kind of like related the spiritual practices, like yoga meditation with my acting training. and how you know that can be used as such a tool, like to go hand in hand with acting and cause we would focus on the voice and do all these movement classes where it's essentially, you're doing yoga and, you know, dropping into a meditative state to drop into the creative flow before you do a scene or something like that.
So that kind of like married the two in my brain. And then ever since then, it's just been a part of my life. I can't say that I meditate every single day. I feel like I meditate when I need to meditate, which happens to be almost every day, but like, I'm not super strict about it. and then I think I told you this, but I recently went to India to do my yoga teacher training.
And so I got to spend a month there, and that was amazing. We would have classes every day. It honestly felt like a spiritual Hogwarts. I literally felt like I was at Hogwarts.
But yeah, so it's kind of just like something that I always have done. But I love to use it as like a tool for grounding and a tool for connection, similar to writing.
Like before I get started on any creative project or if I'm like about to kind of tap into my flow, I always have to meditate first just to kinda like get centered and, you know, connect with my body and my breath and calming that monkey mind.
Lili Torre: [00:08:43] yes. You had told me that you did your yoga teacher training in India, but I did not realize that you had spent time previously at an Ashram. Was that experience, the reason you decided to do your yoga teacher training in India, because I think it's worth calling out, you know, whenever we're talking about Western yoga, just exactly how westernized it is and how appropriated it is in so many ways and how different it is in a lot of ways.
And, you know, I think it's interesting that after your experience at the Ashram. You know, you came back here and I'm assuming your love for yoga remained. And then you wanted to get teacher certification and you live somewhere where there are thousands of places to get your yoga teacher training, but you decided to go to India.
So I'm curious if, if that had anything to do with it.
Leya Van Doren: [00:09:35] Yeah, definitely. So the Ashram that I lived at was actually in Northern California, but the like lineage that it came from, was from, like Indian swamis. So, yeah, that, because that was my introduction to it. Cause I think a lot of people in the West. Are introduced to yoga through the physical aspect of it. And so hot yoga is really popular or like Vinyasa style classes are super popular. So I've heard from a lot of people that like, that's their introduction to it, which makes sense if we're here in America and it's not until much later that they kind of discover that there's this whole other side of yoga.
And so for me, I, because I think I came at it from the Eastern perspective to begin with. That was kind of what I related to it as. And so I really didn't feel connected to Westernized studios. Like I tried Core Power at one point and I just like, couldn't do it because I was just like, this is what are we doing? This is not yoga.
And so I definitely, that's why. Yeah. I definitely wanted to do it in India to kind of have a more authentic experience, and to really get that Eastern side and that more spiritual side.
But I will say, even when I was there, you see how commodified yoga is, because it was very much like I mean, maybe it's become a business for them where they know Westerners want to go study in India.
So then, you know, of course they're meeting the demand. So it kind of does become a lot more watered down. but I still wouldn't trade the experience for everything, but there's also that side of it as well.
Lili Torre: [00:11:01] Yeah, that's super interesting. And I love what you were saying before about incorporating that training and that sense of spirituality for yourself into your, theatrical training, into your creative routine. I think that's a really amazing thing, because you know, on this podcast, we talk a lot about our skills being valuable and useful in more ways than we think that they are.
So, so often artists and actors think that their skills as theater artists only apply to being a theater artist. And it seems like you're someone who has a pretty natural sense of how different experiences go together and fuel and feed one another.
Leya Van Doren: [00:11:50] Yeah, definitely. something, I think I learned throughout college and like throughout my acting training, that like to be an artist is to be a student of life. it's like how biology is the study of life or like botany is the study of plants acting as the study of human relationships and like human psychology.
So it's really. Everything rolled into one. It's just like, it depends on what, which perspective you look at it from. And so in that sense, I mean, everything is, the study of the human condition, you know?
So whatever path you choose, like, I love that you talk about on this podcast, parallel careers and how those kind of relate to your artistry, and I agree because in my mind, it's like, it's all interchangeable. It's all, they all feed each other. Like you said,
Lili Torre: [00:12:36] Yeah, exactly. And so I would love to hear more about where you are right now in your parallel career journey.
Leya Van Doren: [00:12:45] Yeah. I love that. So, Oh, it's been, it's. I feel like it's been a long journey because I am someone that always knew I wanted to have my own business and do something that would help me be a thriving artist. I hate the terminology of, you know, surviving artist or, yeah, so I always kind of felt that way, but I didn't know what it would look like. And I think I naturally have... like, I've always thought, "Oh, I want to be some type of life coach," but I didn't know like what that looks like. And it wasn't until I did The Artist's Way, about two years ago and I like totally fell in love with the idea of unblocking your artist and like reconnecting with your inner artist.
At the time I was really struggling myself with kind of questioning my path as an artist and, like questioning my self worth as an artist. And I think that as artists and as creative people, but also people in general, there are so many limiting beliefs that hold us back. Questioning if we're good enough questioning, if we're talented and enough questioning, like who cares what I have to say, imposter syndrome, all of those things.
And so, as I was working through The Artist's Way, I was able to kind of go through my own process with starting to look at some of that stuff and heal it. And. It's just been such a beautiful journey of like, knowing that I don't know, it's hard to say in words, but it's like the journey's never over.
You're always going to come up with like another limiting belief, as soon as you've kind of worked through one, another one comes up. And so it's true in life, but I'm especially passionate about it in your creative career, because I think that so many people have talents and stories to tell and, and their voice matters.
And so many times we stop ourselves before we start, because we're so terrified of being seen. We're so terrified of what people will think of us if we tell our truth. And so I've, through my own journey. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is how I want to help other people" of them figuring out who they are as an artist and reconnecting to that creative spirit inside of them because creativity is life. I mean, that's like joy, passion. That's what, what makes us alive and what makes us feel alive.
So it's become so much bigger now from like, me focusing on being a theater artist to like how I want to live my life as a whole. And I'm like, I am a creative soul through and through. I want to live a life that's full of aliveness and creativity and joy.
Lili Torre: [00:15:17] I love that. And it sounds like you want to help other people do that too.
Leya Van Doren: [00:15:23] Yeah, it's been great. I like, so I've started coaching people one-on-one. And then I also started this like group workshop, like I mentioned before The Creativity Circle, which again is a guided meditation journaling workshop. Really to connect with your inner artist and really to kind of examine some of those things that do hold you back and really get to the root of why, so that you can begin to work through them.
And I've just been having fun with like this writing workshop that I just taught. It's like, we did this silly exercise called fridge poetry. And the idea of it is one day I was feeling really like blocked and I had no inspiration and no motivation. And I was like, you know what? I keep just like looking at my fridge every five seconds.
Like, what do I think I'm going to find in there? I'm like, I'm going to use my fridge as some inspiration. So I opened up the fridge, I took five items, like random items, and I wrote those down and based off those five items, I wrote a poem as like I used that as a springboard for inspiration.
And I wrote a poem and I was so surprised at like the turns it took. It was nothing that I could have expected. And so
Lili Torre: [00:16:31] wow.
Leya Van Doren: [00:16:31] yeah, it was just like such a silly thing, but I taught it in this workshop and people loved it. Cause it's like, It can turn into anything and it can be silly, it can be deep... you know, a lot of themes came up about food deserts and, you know, access to healthy food, which I hadn't even thought about when I thought of the exercise, but it was so cool to see, you know, what came up when like, when you're prompted with something that is totally unexpected.
Lili Torre: [00:16:58] Yeah. I mean, that's such a, what you just brought up is such a unique sort of theater artist way of, of looking at things, because if you think about what theater is, you know, we're telling the same stories over and over in a, in a literal way. You know, it's not like a movie where maybe there's a remake, every, I don't know, 20, 30, 50 years or so, but with a play or a musical, we're telling literally the exact same play or musical over and over.
But the point of doing so hopefully is to garner new perspective is to see this piece in a different light, through a different lens and you know, something that came so naturally for you or was something just kind of silly for you of like, "I dunno, I found these things in my fridge and I like wrote a poem," became something, you know, even deeper and through someone else's lens, had a very different significance, and I think that's really beautiful and a really cool way to bring your theater artists lens, not only to other industries as we talk about in this podcast so often, but also to other artistries, to other areas of the arts.
And I think that's so cool and unique and such a fun way to look at things that I hadn't necessarily thought of.
Leya Van Doren: [00:18:20] Yeah.
Lili Torre: [00:18:21] So I guess I'm curious what this journey has been like for you, getting into, did you say you call it, creativity, coaching, or how do you look at it?
Leya Van Doren: [00:18:31] Yeah. I like to call it creativity, coaching. Which again, when, when people hear that term, some of them are like, like it's not a very well known term. I think it's becoming a little more well known and more and more people are getting into it. But I feel like life coaching is so popular. But it's, it's specifically life coaching in a sense for artists.
And so I work with artists who want to tell their own stories and who have, you know, been held back by previous limiting beliefs and beginning to work through those limiting beliefs. And also a big part of my journey that I had to work through is like in college or in these creative spaces that you find community and accountability is so important.
And, you know, I found when I graduated college and entered the real world, I was like, "Shit. I'm all on my own!" I have all these ideas, but no one's going to do them for me, but it's really hard to stay self-motivated especially if you don't... I found that it was really hard to stay self motivated.
And also I felt like I was scared of even telling people what I was working on because I found that like, if I named it out loud, first of all, then I had this expectation of like, Well, are you working on that thing? Or I felt like... I don't know, I had so much fear of like telling people what I was excited about and what I wanted to work on and what I was working on.
I would kind of like hoard it and keep it as a secret until I was going to put it out in the open, whatever that may be. But I realized that it's so important to keep talking about your ideas and keep talking about the things that you're working on to hold yourself accountable if you don't have people to, you know, accountability, partners, or something like that.
So I find having a coach like a specific coach for that is someone who is going to keep you on track with your goals. And you can't really, use the excuse that you're like, well, if it's a project for me, then nobody's going to know if I'm not doing it. You know, you have to make your creative dreams valid and real.
And it's not just some pipe dream that you'll get to one day. It's like, if it's important to you, you have to put in the work. And sometimes. The work is literally just getting yourself to start.
Lili Torre: [00:20:35] Absolutely. I think that's a really interesting sort of other side of the coin of the dreaded question, because especially, you know, part of the reason I love asking people, "So what are you up to?" right now is because. It's such a different experience right now when the answer can't be, "Oh, I'm in a brand new musical," you know, it just changes it.
And I think it's so interesting. But before when there was that dread around saying, you know, "Oh man, I don't have any new work to share or anything." It's funny to look at the other side of the coin and be like, even if you had something to share, you may not want to share it because you don't want to be held accountable.
But I also think one of the amazing things about telling people is that, yes, it does hold you accountable, but I also find when I tell people things that I'm working on or interested in or noodling on or passionate about that they'll often say, "Oh my gosh, I just read a book about that!"
Or "Do you know such-and-such? They're working on something that sounds really in alignment" or, you know, finding creative ways to sort of bolster that work that I'm doing. And I learn about resources and people that I never would have thought of otherwise, or maybe nothing comes up in the moment, but then I'll hear from that person, you know, months later and they'll say, "Oh, I remember you said you were talking about this thing. Have you seen this?" And I just like, can't say enough how important it is to, to share what you're working on, yes, for accountability, as you said, but also because that's where the "big magic" is.
Leya Van Doren: [00:22:11] I love that. Yeah. You bring up such a good point about like, I have a strong belief that it's like when you show up the universe shows up with you. And so when you make that commitment to yourself and you start talking to people about it, the universe is going to support you 100%. And so having those like little serendipities of someone being like, "Hey, I actually heard something..." and pointing you in the direction that maybe you wouldn't have gotten to by yourself.
And so that's such an important piece of it too, of like, knowing that as soon as you speak it out loud, like the universe is going to be right there, right there with you. So I love that.
Lili Torre: [00:22:47] Absolutely. so you were saying before that this creativity coaching is something that you offer to artists, and I'm curious, is this something that you would ever offer to what we affectionately call muggles or people outside of the arts?
Leya Van Doren: [00:23:03] Yes. That's something that I've had to think about a lot, because I wonder, like, I I'm still questioning, like, who am I more passionate about serving and like, who am I more equipped to serve? And I think that like, so-called "muggles", actually like this work could benefit them maybe more so than someone who identifies as an artist, because, you know, if you're someone who hasn't really been exposed to this type of work or like, cause I think, you know, being a theater artist it's so... you have to go really deep inside yourself, inside, you know, your psyche and kind of the way that you interact in the world and the way that you want to interact with the world.
You know, there's a lot of self reflection that goes on with just being an artist. And I think so many people could benefit from that type of work especially when, like that's not something they're used to, they don't talk about that in, you know, different industries all the time.
Whereas I feel like being an artist is like having a microscopic lens on your life, and you're like thinking about every little thing you're doing, how you're reacting to different situations.
So I think like my big thing is mindfulness, and that goes along with kind of what we were talking about before with meditation. And I really, I really do think of creativity as a form of mindfulness and as a form of self care. Not to necessarily produce the next best thing, like you don't need to be writing the next best play or book or producing something great. I think the beauty of it is in the process of it. And so when you're like engaging in creative mindful work, whether that's like painting because painting calms your mind, or if you're just writing and journaling, I'm really interested in like those...those self care practices that are created and that engage your mind in a different way in a, in a restful way, rather than like turning the TV on at night.
Yeah, I think like our society is so... we engage in like mind numbing practices, like watching TV or alcohol, or like all these things that kind of, we use to numb ourselves just from living in our reality, but I am passionate about like bringing creativity as a way to cope, as a way to soothe, as a way to heal. So yeah, there's just like so much to it.
Lili Torre: [00:25:24] Yeah, I mean, of course I believe that artists need your work, but I definitely believe that non-artists also very much need your work. And, you know, just as we, as artists so often say, "Oh, I just don't know anything about business. Like I'm just bad at business. I'm bad with computers," or whatever the story is that you're telling yourself, non-artists are also telling themselves, "I'm just not a creative person."
And I think that's really sad, especially... it's also a huge missed opportunity in a time when in reality, creativity is really valued in the business world right now. Lots of huge, huge, and small corporations have innovation labs or innovation centers where they're trying to innovate their businesses.
And guess what? Innovation is creativity. You know, so if those people weren't telling themselves a story, "Well, I'm just not creative. I can't innovate." I think business could potentially look very different. So I'm curious for you, I mean, first of all, do you believe that? That people are just inherently creative or not, but secondly, if everyone has the capacity for creativity, can it ever die within us if we don't cultivate it? Or is it something that we can always revive and cultivate and bring back to life?
Leya Van Doren: [00:26:54] I love that question. Yeah, I, well, yes, the answer is, I think that all humans are creative. I think creativity is like an innate ability that we all have. I think that just a lot of us have not tapped into that ability because we've been taught that it looks one way and that to be, if you don't identify as an artist, then you think that you're not creative because maybe it's, you know, you don't have that natural inclination as, you know, as people who identify as artistic do, but everyone has the ability to think for themselves to put their own perspective on something.
It kind of makes me think of the question, like, what is creativity and what do we define as creativity? and it can be, I feel like creativity is always talked about this like elusive, mysterious thing. And I know I love Elizabeth Gilbert talks about it in Big Magic...
So it's kind of like... right, you have to think about like the definition of that, but like you said, it it's about innovation, it's about, I mean, for me, it's really about, like I said, those self care practices and it's about being mindful and engaging with the present moment and kind of having that tool to reflect and connect.
And so that's available to anyone and I think... I love the question is if you don't cultivate it, does it die? No, I don't think it'll ever inherently die, but I think you can... it is a practice that you do want to engage in just like meditation is a practice where it'll get easier the more you do it, creativity is also a practice.
So if you feel really stuck or blocked or uninspired, and you're kind of having to deal with all the mental chatter before you kind of tap into that flow state. The more you practice and cultivate that skill, the easier it is to drop in and to like really get to the juicy stuff right away without kind of having to deal with all the fluff.
I mean, I find, I don't know if you know of the practice morning pages, which is part of, yes. I love that. Yeah, part of The Artist's Way. But I find like with my morning pages, the first page and a half might just be fluff. It's just kind of mental chatter... " This is what I'm thinking about. You know, I'm hungry. I need to go to the bathroom..." just kind of like basic stuff, but then as you keep going, you, you dig a little deeper and you kind of get to like what really needed to come out.
So in that way, it's totally a practice and a skill that needs to be nurtured and cultivated. But I think because we are human beings, it is our innate ability to create.
Lili Torre: [00:29:19] I totally agree. I'm just going to encourage you that I very much believe that there are non-artists out there that really need what you have to offer. And I think that could be a really interesting thing for you to consider in your small business.
And speaking of small business. I want to thank you here on the podcast for being so flexible, to reschedule our recording session. Cause we were supposed to record yesterday, but I shared with you that I had an opportunity come up to attend a online event through Hello Seven called Re-imagining Small Businesses and invited you to attend with me so that we could maybe also talk about it a little bit today, but also because you know, we're both working on small businesses. And the intention of this particular panel or seminar was to to learn how you can engage in anti-racist practices in your small business.
So obviously it sounded like something you and I should attend and we did, and it was really amazing- if any listeners out there were there, I'm sure you know, but if you weren't, it was a live event on YouTube, so there is a replay available, which I will link in the show notes.
And I don't want to go too deep into the, the hows that they shared with us because I'd really prefer for our listeners to go back and listen to the, the breakdown of the pledge that they shared with us at the end of the course. Which was an ongoing mission of commitments to make towards building a anti-racist organization.
So I definitely encourage you to go and listen to that in their words, they phrased everything so beautifully and clearly, and they deserve your time and attention. But I would love for us to just kind of unpack a few takeaways, things that came up. Because for me, and I'm sure for you, there were many.
The panel was full of incredible and gracious humans, including Broadway's own Robert Hartwell, who is such an incredible superstar and was really amazing. So, do you want to start us off? Is there anything that you're dying to share that you took away?
Leya Van Doren: [00:31:48] Yeah, I love that. Thanks for saying all that. Yeah, it's such important work to be engaging in and, and, you know, It's crazy that we're in this time where now it's like... previously where we felt like we could look away, now we are realizing that we can't look away, and it's time for things to change, and it's been time for decades for centuries.
And, but now it's like, because the spotlight is on this. It's like, I think it's so beautiful now that. Right. We attended this small business organization, but I'm thinking about the ways in... I work for a theater institution and my day job has been working in theater. And so in, in my work there in my work with my small business in kind of it, which interchangeably is like the work with myself, I'm looking at the ways that I have interacted and been complicit in white supremacy culture.
So I think hearing from them, what really stuck out to me was the poem that, I, I don't remember her name right now, but she,
Lili Torre: [00:32:53] Sonya. Yes, it was beautiful.
Leya Van Doren: [00:32:56] She shared a poem which blew me away and was so beautiful and also just such a testament to art and how art can speak to these times that we're going in. And I think that something I get really caught up in, and I wonder if people can relate...
I am like always left with the existential question of what's the point and what is the point of all this? And like with theater, with art, it's like, we do it to explore something with our ourselves, we do it to explore something in society that we want to change. We think, you know, theater is such a beautiful tool for change, but at some point it, I am left with the question of like, is this enough?
Is this, is this really going to, you know, we're not affecting policy. and so that's something that I have really been thinking about and like, as an artist/activist, what are the ways in which, you know, we're, we are telling the stories that need to be heard and how is that then affecting real change?
So I say all that, just because the poem was such a beautiful moment for me as, as they kind of opened the seminar of like this, this is why we make art, you know, that was such a powerful moment that made me stop and made me see it in a different way and maybe empathize. And it was just such a beautiful expression.
I encourage everyone to go watch it, so yeah, it's, it's, it's been, you know, of course there's so many other things too, but yeah.
Lili Torre: [00:34:30] Yeah. I mean, it makes total sense that the poem resonated with you based on everything we've heard in today's episode, I really was stunning and everyone should go check it out.
And actually something that you said is really hitting me in a profound way. You were talking about how, you know, yes, you are a small business owner, but you're also someone who works for a theater company, and so all of this work is hitting you in these different areas.
And what I just realized is that as multihyphenates, and so many of us are, I would say really all theater artists are multihyphenate s, we have feet in a lot of camps and we have impact in a lot of different industries. And so when we, you know, attend one town hall or watch one seminar, or do whatever- the impact that is felt resonates far beyond the theatrical community beyond, you know, whatever you think of as your primary thing, that impact is felt in- if you have a survival job, in your survival job. That impact can be felt in every single community that we are a part of.
And so actually, you know, cause then you were talking about, you know, "How much power do I, as one person have, how much impact can I create, you know, what's the point?" We should feel even more empowered because we have so much influence in so many different communities, as long as we are willing to show up fully in those communities and share what we have learned. And you know, look at our learnings through that lens.
You know, how can I apply what I learned to the restaurant industry? How can I bring what I learned to my babysitting job? How can I apply it to my parallel career? How can I apply it to my primary career? And that's something I hadn't thought of. That's extremely empowering. And what you were saying about, you know, change made me think of Robert at the beginning, sharing...something to this is I'm paraphrasing, but he said, you know, "Change is definitely happening right now. And we all get to be active participants in this change."
And that was another thing that I found really empowering was like, it's not happening to us. It's happening with us. And we all get to create it together. And especially as creative people. That's what we love to do! So I, yeah, I found that all really empowering.
Leya Van Doren: [00:36:56] Yeah. I love that because what, what you were saying kind of made me think of like the spheres of influence that we all have and right. Just I mean the spheres of influence in your home, in your community with your family, with your friends, with your workplace, and you know, like you said, all of us are, so multihyphenate, you know, there's so many different industries that we then fall- fall into, as we're supporting ourselves.
So really like a small group of people can have such an impact when you're kind of like, and like every action that you take is like that ripple effect of like it reverberating out through your community, through your spheres of influence and then, you know, eventually throughout the world.
So you have to remember that, like it does matter and it does make a difference and it will... we are all participating in this great change. And I think that's, what's... such a beautiful moment about everything that's happening, I mean, amidst all the heartbreak and devastation. It's, it's a beautiful community moment of like people coming together and re-imagining a better future for ourselves and for our children and future generations.
Lili Torre: [00:38:00] Yes. I absolutely agree. There some great mentions of, you know, not waiting until you feel like, you know, what to say or what to do. You know, there was an emphasis on "Take imperfect action" and, what was it that Erica said, "Be humble and ready to fumble." That one really got me. I really enjoyed that.
Yeah, I found that also really empowering as well that, you know, you're not going to be perfect, but just trying and you know, of course, educating yourself. I think it was also Erica who was talking about a framework, Awareness, Analysis, Action, and then Accountability/Allyship. And she was talking about how so many people jump from awareness of realizing like, "Oh, I might have white privilege" to action and trying to speak out and fight for it without that middle moment of analysis, which is really, you know, the education, the questioning, the, the deeper understanding the moment from, "Oh, I might have white privilege" to like, understanding what that truly means to where that comes from and how that has influenced your life and how you have been a part of it, and then taking action.
So I, just learned so much from, from this town hall. And I hope that everyone honestly listening will go check it out in the show notes because it is absolutely worth your time.
Leya Van Doren: [00:39:32] Yeah, absolutely.
Lili Torre: [00:39:34] Well, Leya, thank you so much for taking time to have this conversation today. It was so awesome to talk to you. You are such a creative person. It goes without saying, and you have so many brilliant ideas and perspectives, and you are someone that I definitely hope will expand your impact in this world, because there are so many facets of our world that need to hear what you have to say and to receive what you have to offer.
So I definitely encourage you to keep going. I will be linking all of your information in the show notes so that anyone listening can find you. And I'm just so grateful. You took the time to chat with me today.
Leya Van Doren: [00:40:13] Thank you for having me. It was... I've been listening to your podcast and like, I love every single episode. All of the people that you have on, I mean, every conversation that I've listened to is just so inspiring of, like, we don't have to settle for less than what we deserve and, and, you know, right. Like you, you don't realize how much impact you have how much you can affect things and affect change.
So I think it's so important for like every individual to realize that and really take responsibility for that. So both the good and the bad of that, and, you know, keep doing what you came here to do, right?
Lili Torre: [00:40:50] Exactly. Thank you so much.
As you can probably guess, that Re-imagining Small Businesses town hall that Leya and I attended was a few weeks ago now, but it felt very relevant to share it because the work is not over. We're all still learning and growing and working and clawing our way towards major change.
I hope that the aha moment that Leya helped me uncover inspires you to realize that it's especially important that we all do the work. Our impact is greater than most people in this world. And as I've said, so many times before, we have the power to affect real change. And as Ru Paul says, "With great power comes great responsibility." Yes. I know that's not originally from RuPaul.
Before I sign off for today, I wanted to let you know that next week will be the final episode of season two of TDQ, and it will be just the two of us.
I'll unpack some of the major moments from season two and I'll fill you in on what I'm up to. I can't believe this season two journey has taken us this far and I already can't wait for season three, but for now, I'll see you next week for the final episode of season two of The Dreaded Question.